Krag Collectors Association Forum

I stop by a friend's place upon occasion. The old packrat trader finds me some interesting firearms related stuff from time to time. Today he had a real good one! A Niedner barreled 1885 Winchester Low Wall Take Down! It was equipped with a 24.25" long J. Stevens #141 scope and mounts. He got it for a song from some old gal who referred to it as grandpa's shotgun. It appears to be a 22 Hornet, but could be Niedner's improved version. I measured a .298" base and a .358" rim recess. There were no markings for the chambering to be found on the rifle. 28" heavy barrel, .797" in diameter at the muzzle, with a .219" bore. I thought some of you Michigunners might be interesting in seeing it. Sorry, I missed getting the whole of the barrel rollmark. I'll be visiting it again soon. I can tell the rifle has been sitting in a corner a long time, the objective end of the scope is full of dust, as is the muzzle end of the bore. It's clean most of the way up however. Oh, the trigger appears to be adjustable, and it's adjusted real good!

Very, very cool!

"Grandpa's Shotgun"

::)

Pure Michigan! Thanks for sharing.

The scope and mounts alone are worth $850-$1500 according to Stroebel.

Bob, you dog... You're ALWAYS coming up with interesting stuff!!! Well done!

By the way... I think we should start talking about Perry early this new year, as I'd like to see you make the whole weekend with us this year!

I'm very happy for my packrat friend Paul. He was in a car wreck many years ago that made a mess of his neck. Had to wear a halo for a long time, and it still causes him pain. I'd have tried to snatch it away from him for a price he'd have been happy with, but when he and I are done playing with it, I'll likely put in on gunbroker for him. Like most of us in this area, he could use the money, so I been straight up with him, let him know it's very valuable. Yea, I'd like to shoot all next year, got to get on that Nazi Krag for the vintage, and I have to find someone that'll make me a decent pair of glasses. The eyeglass makers seem to be fooling around, they don't care, they get paid by the VA right or wrong! I've been over 6mo trying to get a useful pair! If I don't get around to the Stomperud, I have my K31. The Garand is ready, I'll never forget those 10 Xs in a row back in 2014, too bad 5 of them were sighters!

That is a coil spring Low Wall with a single set trigger. And a Niedner barrel. Be still my heart! And the takedown feature (only works with the coil spring action) is rather rare.

The single set trigger works by pushing forward on the trigger (from the back, of course) until you feel a click. Then you have a very light trigger pull. Using it as a standard trigger tends to wear the parts. You can get replacement parts, for $$, but you need to find someone with a special set of skills to work on the SST.

The whole rig is worth some serious $$. I'm curious about the caliber. Maybe an ordinary Hornet, maybe not. Lots of variants back when this was made. A careful chamber cast would tell you a lot.

It may be a .223" groove-diameter barrel. The bullets are still around, but probably special order.

Early on, but about the time that takedown actions were first made, Niedner used base-band bullets. That requires a different setup and special loading tools & techniques. If it turns out to be intended for base-band bullets, the shooter-owner is about to enter another universe.

Michael Petrov has passed away, but I think someone on the ASSRA forum has Niedner's record books. I think it is possible to learn a lot about this rifle. I'm going to send the ASSRA guys over here to look at this one.

I hope some of them have some input. Most of what I have discovered is thanks to Michael Petrov. Tomorrow, we're going to disassemble it again, see if there are interrupted threads in the receiver. There isn't on the barrel stub, and I didn't think to look in the receiver. If there are no interrupted threads, then Niedner converted a solid frame to coil spring by his own means. I think it is a regular Hornet, no other cartridge has the base diameter I measured and the owner found a fired 22 Hornet that wouldn't fit, probably because it was fired in a more liberal chamber. I got him some new PRVI Hornet Ammo that ought to. The bore was dusty, my calipers measured a .219 bore diameter.

Please do keep us involved!

I got to take the forearm off, and took the rifle down today. 1082 was the number on the barrel, so made in 1933. There were interrupted threads in the receiver, but like I said above, not on the barrel shank. It's simply a 1910 made Winchester takedown with Niedner heavy barrel made 3 years after the first Hornet ammunition became available. We cleaned the dust out of the barrel and shot a couple rounds of PPU 22 Hornet. Brass didn't blow out to any sort of improved configuration. Windage is way off, it needs boresighted. That's for another day, it was cold and windy. The barrel looked to be in great shape internally. This rifle was handed down to the lady mentioned above. Her grandpa must've been a mine boss or landowner, most the folks around here could only afford H&Rs, Iver-Johnsons, or Stevens.