Krag Collectors Association Forum

So, I have also been busy with non-Krag activities while the KCA was being remodeled.

A neighbor told me about a firearm he found in his attic in the early 1970s when he was tearing up some floor boards to install insulation. He found an old muzzle loader that had been hidden under these floorboards for quite some time, evidently. The house was built in the mid 1800s. He never did anything with the shotgun and just left it in the attic.

I, of course, asked if I could check it out and that I would clean it up and research it for him.

This shotgun was in bad shape with lots of thick crackled and hardened varnish covering the stock and the metal was full of rust and old grease. But, it had potential.

I cleaned it up, removed the old varnish and wiped it down good with oil on the metal and boiled linseed oil on the stock. It's quite the handsome firearm. I'm not a muzzle loader, nor shotgun collector, so, I would like to know if anyone has any information on this more than the pittance I have found on the internet. That would amount to next to nothing.

I have found that this is an English shotgun, often referred to as a side lever hammer gun or double shotgun, possibly an 8 bore. It was made by John Farson and appears to be, from what I can make of the proofs, from 1868-1875. The proofs show it was from Birmingham, England. The "Roses Patent No. 20" evidently refers to the forge the barrels came from. It has the original ram rod which is nice. It functions relatively well, overall.

Pretty wall-hanger. I have returned it to its owner with his appreciation. (Didn't charge him anything because I enjoyed the time with this interesting piece and he didn't come to me to do the work- I asked him.)

If any information, let me know and I'll pass it on to the owner. What a neat find in an attic!!

More pictures...

more pictures...

'Whig' - Neat find and a great kindness to your neighbor. I imagine, it is actually a 14 bore (14 gauge), looking at the numbers accompanying the Birmingham Proofs.

I could find no listing for a "J. Farson" in my British references. Possibly it is a bogus name, that sounds kind of famous.

This was a common practice in the "Trade" on common & inexpensive guns made for export.

Is that ornate-carved 'pistol grip' Horn or Wood? That 'add-on' would be unusual for use in Britain, but, more in style on the Continent. It adds to my suspicions that this rather nice double-barreled hammer-gun was made for the export market.

Thanks, Chuck.

I did find a few of these that had been sold at auctions. One was sold that looked the same, without that ornate add-on piece, I believe, and it was in excellent condition. It sold for greater than $5,000, if I remember correctly. I was quite amazed a firearm that old could still be in like-new condition. But, we do see that occasionally. The ones that were auctioned were listed as John Farson. So, there are more than just my neighbor's in existence. I am shocked that I couldn't find more about it though. Something unusual that so few are around.

I told my neighbor that I thought this one might be worth $300-400 in this condition. It does look rather smart, though.

The add-on piece appears to be wood. The picture below shows a cracked piece which reveals the wood inside. It cleaned up like wood also. I think that the sling post was removed from underneath the back end of the stock to be used to secure this piece into the stock. Clever and it works.

The proofs were hard to understand since there are so many of them. I studied the charts for a while and came up with my date and place of manufacture. It makes sense that it was made to be imported.

Whig: I really had not noticed the sling-swivel or 'eye' on the ramrod 'pipe' and the 'sling-eye' coupled with the ornate pistol-grip.

Shotguns with slings are a common 'Continental-European' feature. Shotgun slings were never very popular with British or North American Shot-Gunners.

Did you measure the bores? A 14 gauge would measure around .69 caliber. (An 8 bore would be huge).

BTW - The 14 gauge had a popularity and continues to be used in Europe. It was pretty much 'unknown' in the U.S. I don't think British Hunters had an interest in 14 bores.

A special 'necked' 14 gauge shot-shell (14/12) was used by British Police in Martini-Action riot shotguns. (This novel arrangement was to better control Police arms and ammunition).

I didn't measure the bore and don't have it now. It was pretty big. But, this was a muzzle loader. Didn't use shot shells of any kind. It was probably 0.75 inch or close.

Whig - The barrel walls on your neighbor's muzzle-loading shotgun look rather 'paper thin'. I wonder if the barrels were 'bored out' at some time from "14 bore" to "12 bore"?

British proof marks typically are accompanied by a number which indicates the barrel's gauge or bore. This number is based on how many Lead Balls, of bore diameter, would weigh one pound.

My family 'heirloom' British percussion rifle is 19 gauge or .626" caliber.
U.S. and Confederate purchased "Enfield" (type) Rifles, made in Birmingham and London, were stamped '24' (gauge) to indicate .577" caliber.

Some typical British bore/gauge sizes (for both muzzle and breech-loaders) are: 8 bore=.835", 12 bore=.729", 14 bore=.693", 16 bore=.662", and 20 bore=.615".

My basic original point was that, the added on pieces and 14 bore marking, were clues as to where your neighbor's shotgun was used.

Thanks. That all makes sense. I should have measured the bore size before returning it. But, the 14 stamp probably does mean bore size.