SN #35776 Identification Help

[Alestorm123]

Have a rough example of a 1896? that I can't identify (Possibly sporterized?) Anyone with more knowledge on it would be much appreciated. Its in need of a new stock as well, but I'm not sure what type to get/where to source one.

[Knute1]

Welcome Alestorm123.
Others will be along with better detailed info. A picture of the overall gun and close-up/top view of the rear sight will help with better assessment. However, you have a 1903 front sight that goes along with your hunch that this particular rifle may have been sporterized. It is set up like a carbine. The rear sight appears to be a model 1896, what yardage does it go up to? The handguard does not go over the receiver, which is a model 1892 trait. The barrel band does not appear to be of arsenal design. What is the barrel length, from closed bolt face to end of barrel? Still, an interesting piece.

[butlersrangers]

Alestorm - Welcome to the KCA Forum.

Your model 1896 receiver, number 35776, would have originally been assembled at Springfield Armory around June to July, 1896.

It is in a serial number range that has both model 1896 rifles and carbines. There is no certain way, now, of telling if it was originally a rifle or carbine.

Your stock is fashioned from a 1903 Springfield stock and the barrel-band is a sheet-metal fabrication.
It appears, you have one of the jury-rigged Krag "carbines", put together by the Francis Bannerman
Company. These were made from a hybrid mixture of surplus parts, some of which were in a fire.

These are an interesting curiosity, but, guns of little historic interest and questionable safety.

I would recommend keeping it, as is, and not shooting it. A hundred years ago, it came with no guarantees.
Hot fires destroy metallurgy beyond repair.

[Alestorm123]

It zeroes out to 2000 and has a C marking on the rear sight leaf.

[Local Boy]

Hi Alestorm123,

Welcome to the KCA

It appears you have a very desirable 1896 carbine sight that normally sells between $500 to $600 on eBay!

Enjoy your toy.

[Alestorm123]

Thanks for all the information on it. It definitely has a strange history. I've never shot it due to the stock being broken by the time I had received it. However, it was passed down through my family and has had quite a few rounds put through it in that time. Whether or not its safe or they just got lucky, I don't think I'll take the risk of firing it. I would, however, like to replace the stock. What would I even be looking for as replacement stock?

[butlersrangers]

Alestorm123 - As 'Local Boy' pointed out, you have a desirable model 1896 carbine sight, worth $500 to $600, on a Krag that is, otherwise, worth around $175.

If it were mine, I would replace the carbine sight with a model 1896 rifle sight, that can be bought on ebay for $75, or less. This would keep the Krag's appearance the same.
(I would keep the valuable carbine rear- sight separate).

Does your stock have the bottom "patch" like the picture that I posted? (The 'bottom-patch' and 'cross-bolts' would confirm that your stock is a modified 1903 Springfield stock).

Model 1896 Krag rifle and carbine stocks are relatively hard to find 'loose'.

My ideas on your wood problem:

1. Find a broken or messed up 1903 or '03-A3 Springfield stock and cut a patch out of it to splice into the broken area of your stock. This would maintain the 'Bannerman Krag' flavor and be a cheap fix.
(Broken areas of your current stock could be 'cut or chiseled out' to give regular margins and make patching easier).

2. Hunt around on ebay or gunbroker until a 'sportered' model 1896 Krag stock shows up. It will probably cost over $100. (Also, your current hand-guard and barrel-band will not likely work with a real Krag stock).

3. Shop for a 'sportered' or 'cut-down model 1898 Krag stock. You can carve and shape the stock's 'bolt-handle area' so that it will accept the model 1896 action. (You will have the same hand-guard, barrel-band issues as in solution #2).

I do not know what your hand-guard is made from. Good clear photos of its 'inside' surfaces would allow possible 'ID'.

If you have access to a knowledgeable gun-smith, he might be able to determine if there is any evidence your Krag's action and barrel have been in a fire and compromised. (This might influence any decisions about shooting it).

FWIW - The presence of the model 1896 carbine sight opens the interesting possibility that your 'Bannerman Krag' may have been parted together from the remains of a model 1896 carbine.
The barrel being fitted with a 1903 Springfield front-sight, normally suggests, the barrel is a cut-down rifle barrel.
Back in the early 1900's, Bannerman's had a lot of surplus U.S. parts and cobbled together some mystifying combinations of stuff!

[Alestorm123]

Looks to be a 1903 stock

[Alestorm123]

[butlersrangers]

Yep, that's a very broken Bannerman - 1903 Springfield stock, altered to fit a Krag!

The hand-guard is not an original Krag part. Bannerman's may have adapted a Mauser hand-guard?

The barrel-band is a Bannerman fabrication. The front-sight is a 1903 Springfield sight.

Replacement Krag wood has long been a problem, hence, Bannerman's cheap fix in the early 1900's.

My suggestion is to watch ebay and gunbroker for practical replacement wood and be patient.
(IIRC - I believe even a Bannerman stock shows up from time to time).
Krag parts are expensive and a project can quickly become a 'money pit'. Define what you wish to accomplish.

If this family heirloom will be for 'wall display' only, 'patching and pasting' the present stock will work.

If it is determined the metal is sound and it will be a 'shooter', a different route can be taken.

'Cut-down' Krag stocks show-up on the internet and at gun-shows. A model 1898 stock can be carved and shaped in the 'bolt-handle area' to accept a model 1896 action.
Original Krag stocks are easier to fit than the rather poor reproductions, I have seen.

I am not aware of a quick, cheap, or easy solution. An original model 1896 carbine stock will fit, but, it can easily cost $500, or more, and would be wasted on this altered Krag.

Time, patience, luck, and ingenuity can offer other solutions.

Last year, I had a 'cut-down' model 1896 Krag that needed a stock. In my parts 'stash' there was a cut-down model 1898 stock. I fitted the stock to accept the 1896 action and re-shaped the forearm into a mock 1896 carbine stock.
I had salvageable parts and enjoyed working on the project.
It is not a real carbine, but, it is a presentable 'shooter'. It is becoming a favorite to take to the Range.