I shouldn't care

[butlersrangers]

I get frequent emails from IMA (International Military Antiques). I have never bought anything from them. Their stuff is generally way over-priced. They get a lot of exposure, now, as the Military Experts on The History Channel's "Pawn Stars".

Occasionally, they at least have a truly interesting item. Sometimes, they list a firearm, that is maybe in the ball park, price-wise.

Today, they sold a 'cut-down' model 1896 rifle, #103940, for $1,495.

They billed it as an unaltered model 1896 carbine. (It clearly was not, with: remains of rifle stock, sling-swivels, no barrel-band spring, 1902 rifle-sight, and a 1903 Springfield front-sight on a barrel cut to 22").

It was a nice looking 'sportered' model 1896 rifle with an attractive stock and hand-guard, worth $400-450 tops.

What steams me is that it was so obviously a cut-down rifle that was sold for 3X its value.
A company, that is portrayed as "Expert" to the public, misrepresents a Krag, adds a bunch of generalized 'blarney' and takes a customer to the cleaners.
I bet they provide an impressive 'Letter of Authenticity', too! (Sure to confuse future generations).

[Ned Butts]

This is why we should care

I bet they provide an impressive 'Letter of Authenticity', too! (Sure to confuse future generations).

But I am not sure exactly what we can do

[todd444]

i am NOT a US Army krag authority, far from it. but i research the krag to find out what year and what model, esp i double and triple check the "cavalry" models. to this date, i have NOT found a cavalry model. i have found the cut down barrels and the 1903 front sight. i have a "cavalry" model that is a 1903 production. the rifle was made in 1903. i think bannerman bought the rifle and they cut off the the barrel to 22"(almost) and they put a 1903 front sight. i took off the rear sight and i replaced it with a no drill 102k redfield aperture. i filled up the screwholes with red candle wax. it was my great grandpap, pappy, father, late uncle and now mine. it will be given to my sons'.

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i have two actions that are dated in 1898 and 1901(i have to check).

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and i have recently bought a 1898 spr armory cheap, $125. its not a cavalry model, heck i haven't even checked the serial number!!!! after deer season, i take it down to strip the rust off of it.

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in case you can't tell, i'm NOT a collector. a collection piece is truly an art form and they cost toooooo much!!!! something to do about my bank account vs a true 1898 spr.....but i rather would be a collector....wink, wink!!!

[Baltimoreed]

A while ago a fellow on gb had a Krag ‘carbine’ listed that was very rough and very overpriced. To my untrained eye it was obviously a cut down stock school rifle with the big clue of the turned down muzzle [to fit the Krag bayonet]. I informed him being curious of what he would do. He didn’t acknowledge my comment or change the auction verbiage. I watched it for a while but never saw that he sold it. All you can do is mention an error to a seller and see what he does. You would naturally warn someone to keep them from getting hurt [at least I would] but we can’t do that with an auction. For example: I shot cas with a guy that I knew was very competitive but thought he was a friend. He was running the timer. After a bunch of rifle misses and the stage ends he says ‘you were high on the rifle’, I asked why didn’t you tell me? His comment was ‘it wasn’t his rifle’. Some people care and some don’t.

[butlersrangers]

It will be a little uncomfortable and awkward, if the purchaser of the bogus IMA "carbine" should post on a gun forum, we patronize, and ask: "How did I do"?

Well, I would tell him the truth, clearly point out the 'proof', and recommend he go after IMA for a complete refund!

(I am not knocking $300-$400 'utility Krags'; I love HUNTING & PROJECT Krags. It is just theft for people, who know better, to pass off such a Krag as a valuable carbine).

[King carp]

As long as there are people with more money than brains this type of thing will continue to happen. It is up to the individual to do his or her research to avoid being taken. This type of deception has been going on since people started collecting. I remember tanker garands, death head lugers, indian sharps rifles (tacks added in 1962), finn cub sporters, martini henry prison guard shotguns (shot out martini henrys smooth bored to 14 gauge). Most of these were hyped to sound more exotic (valuble) or out and out fantasy items. P.T. Barnum said there is a sucker born every minute. The guy who bought that Krag just happened to be walking by. Do your homework and you won't have to make excuses for your investments. Just my 2 cents.

[Whig]

I have seen this kind of thing before from so called "expert" companies claiming to know everything about the items they are selling. I have reported about some auction site mis-representations by "experts".

I called IMF about this and just got an operator who couldn't find anyone for me to talk to. I told her that the item being discussed was grossly mis-represented, and why, and told her that their company has lost reputation because of this and they needed to review this sale and contact the buyer and buy it back. The "carbine" is a cut down rifle with an applied front sight, a cut down stock, an incorrect rifle rear sight and, to top it all off, the barrel band is backwards. What "expert" allows that kind of thing?

I told her it was worth about $400 and they sold it for $1495. Their name and reputation adds nothing to the value of the gun.

Obviously, few people can know everything about every firearm. But, a company this big and this important (!) should have a staff of experts who can learn about everything they sell. It's not the first Krag they have ever seen or sold too.

I doubt that they will make this right but maybe they will. It takes a lot for a big guy to apologize and make something right.

Thanks for posting this. I won't ever trust them or anything they represent on television again. Just add them to the list...

https://tinyurl.com/yxbtgelt

[todd444]

P.T. Barnum said there is a sucker born every minute.

unfortunately this to way to true.

[butlersrangers]

Whig - Thanks for your efforts to make IMA accountable.

King carp - There is truth in what you wrote about a buyer taking responsibility. (Since I was a pre-teen, I have bought into the doctrine of 'buyer beware').

But ... this situation is akin to a supposedly reputable jewelry store selling a seriously flawed diamond, calling it an exceptional item, and providing paperwork of certification.

What I resent:
It is fraud and makes a perfectly nice utility Krag, crazy expensive! It influences the market and drives prices up.
It causes confusion to the Krag novice and perpetuates misinformation.
IMA B.S. will potentially have more "credibility" than honest KCA forum feed-back!

[King carp]

Butlers rangers: I agree 100% that these outfits should not be misrepresenting anything they sell. Just look at gunbroker and see how many 1898 Krag "carbines" are for sale. I do think it helps to call them out on it. But when an outfit makes an extra $1000.00 on a $400.00 rifle i can see why they do not want to know the truth about it. I does not make it right. It is a lot easier to do ones homework on a purchase now rather then 20 years ago. One of the best things i learned when i joined the K.C.A. was what a member told me. He said don't post pics of a newly purchased Krag and ask "how did i do". Instead show somes pics before you buy if possible. This has saved me from some poor decisions.