Hello Everyone,
I am new to this forum and I apologize if some of my questions have already been answered in previous posts. I inherited a 1902 Krag (383510) from my Grandfather. I would like to disassemble, clean and remove (neutralize) rust. I do not want to restore it but I do want to preserve it and make operable again. I would like to know what products to use on the metal without damaging it's natural patina. Are there any tips of tricks to disassemble the rifle? I have no interest in selling it but I would also like to know an approximate value. I do have photos but I do not know how to attach them in this post?
Thank you,
Pete
Krag preservation
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butlersrangers
- Posts: 9880
- Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
- Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan
Re: Krag preservation
'ipaintm3' / Pete: Welcome to the KCA forum.
I'm feeling lazy today. I took the liberty of 'bumping' an old thread, "This old Krag is new to me", that has a lot of useful suggestions to help new guys on caring for and preserving their Krag. (That old thread presently appears just below this one).
Earlier KCA threads are a great resource. The 'search' window is a great way to pull up previously discussed topics.
I'm feeling lazy today. I took the liberty of 'bumping' an old thread, "This old Krag is new to me", that has a lot of useful suggestions to help new guys on caring for and preserving their Krag. (That old thread presently appears just below this one).
Earlier KCA threads are a great resource. The 'search' window is a great way to pull up previously discussed topics.
Re: Krag preservation
Thank you, butlersrangers
Re: Krag preservation
Preparedness + Opportunity= Luck
NRA Benefactor Member
KY & WV State Rifle & Pistol Association Life Member
NRA Benefactor Member
KY & WV State Rifle & Pistol Association Life Member
Re: Krag preservation
How do you fellas feel about using electrolysis to remove rust from steel? I collect old micrometers, other measuring tools and such and find that it works really well for removing rust without using anything abrasive. It won't remove hot bluing, but will remove the old brown finish on older guns. It does remove cold bluing.
Larry
Larry
Last edited by larrys on Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Krag preservation
It could be the cart's meow but I am chicken when applying these new technologies to antiques. I would always go with fine metal wool and elbow grease. Electrolytes may ooze out of threaded joints like the barrel receiver for years. Each of the Krag parts was treated differently at the armory, so each piece would need to be tried individually.
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butlersrangers
- Posts: 9880
- Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
- Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan
Re: Krag preservation
I have not used electrolysis in any type of gun or bore cleaning. (Nor have I seen a need to).
I like to preserve metal finishes and patina. I think other traditional approaches give good results and are easy to control.
I may be totally in error, but, believe some things like the chemical reaction of Naval Jelly and electrolysis mishaps,
can result in hydrogen embrittlement of high-carbon steels & springs, (Parts become brittle and look like they were in a fire).
(I know little about metallurgy and may be very wrong).
I like to preserve metal finishes and patina. I think other traditional approaches give good results and are easy to control.
I may be totally in error, but, believe some things like the chemical reaction of Naval Jelly and electrolysis mishaps,
can result in hydrogen embrittlement of high-carbon steels & springs, (Parts become brittle and look like they were in a fire).
(I know little about metallurgy and may be very wrong).
Re: Krag preservation
Hmmm, Not sure if you know what I'm talking about.
It's not high tech by any means. I use a 5 gallon plastic pail, a solution of water and sodium carbonate (washing soda), an old 8 amp battery charger, and a chunk of 3x3 angle bar for an anode. The angle bar, or similar chunk o' steel goes in the pail for the anode. A 1/4" rod goes across the top of the pail to hang your parts off of with some wire, + (pos) lead from the charger goes to the anode, and - (neg) lead to the rod with the parts. Electric current removes the oxidation and transfers it to the anode. No acids or any corrosive liquids involved. I will leave a rusty part in the pail for 8-10 hours. The part comes out, gets blown off with compressed air. The process leaves a fine black powdery residue which comes off with #O steel wool or a stainless steel wire brush. I have dipped the steel wool in mineral spirits or Hoppes #9 for better scrubbing action. I have cleaned all sorts of old rusty things. I've have saved old motorcycle and outboard motor gas tanks using this process.
I do have one of those electrolysis bore cleaning kits. I found the process slow and tedious. I believe to remove copper or lead from a bore requires a different solution than the one I make for removing rust from steel.
Larry
It's not high tech by any means. I use a 5 gallon plastic pail, a solution of water and sodium carbonate (washing soda), an old 8 amp battery charger, and a chunk of 3x3 angle bar for an anode. The angle bar, or similar chunk o' steel goes in the pail for the anode. A 1/4" rod goes across the top of the pail to hang your parts off of with some wire, + (pos) lead from the charger goes to the anode, and - (neg) lead to the rod with the parts. Electric current removes the oxidation and transfers it to the anode. No acids or any corrosive liquids involved. I will leave a rusty part in the pail for 8-10 hours. The part comes out, gets blown off with compressed air. The process leaves a fine black powdery residue which comes off with #O steel wool or a stainless steel wire brush. I have dipped the steel wool in mineral spirits or Hoppes #9 for better scrubbing action. I have cleaned all sorts of old rusty things. I've have saved old motorcycle and outboard motor gas tanks using this process.
I do have one of those electrolysis bore cleaning kits. I found the process slow and tedious. I believe to remove copper or lead from a bore requires a different solution than the one I make for removing rust from steel.
Larry
Last edited by larrys on Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Krag preservation
larrys wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:58 pm Hmmm, not sure if you know what I'm talking about.
It's not high tech by any means. I use a 5 gallon plastic pail, a solution of water and sodium carbonate (washing soda), an old 8 amp battery charger, and a chunk of 3x3 angle bar for an anode. The angle bar, or similar chunk o' steel goes in the pail for the anode. A 1/4" rod goes across the top of the pail to hang your parts off of with some wire, + (pos) lead from the charger goes to the anode, and - (neg) lead to the rod with the parts. Electric current removes the oxidation from the part and transfers it to the anode. No acids or any corrosive liquids involved. It is the very same process that conservators use to restore iron cannons recovered from the sea bottom. I will leave a rusty part in the pail for 8-10 hours. The part comes out, gets blown off with compressed air. The process leaves a fine black powdery residue which comes off with #O steel wool or a stainless steel wire brush. I have dipped the steel wool in mineral spirits or Hoppes #9 for better scrubbing action. I have cleaned all sorts of old rusty things. I've have saved old motorcycle and outboard motor gas tanks using this process.
I do have one of those electrolysis bore cleaning kits. I found the process slow and tedious. I believe to remove copper or lead from a bore requires a different solution than the one I make for removing rust from steel.
Larry
Re: Krag preservation
Did not know it was that simple, a little research will tell you if any hydrogen in released in the process. I have had heat treated parts zinc plated and the plater jumped through some hoops to mitigate the problem.
You mentioned your process would remove browning and I just recently heard the bluing of krag barrels was akin to a browning process. BR in the past has posted a list of all the parts of a krag and how they were treated or colored. It is a mix match with almost each part treated differently. Notice the pretty blue on the extractor that is probably the oxide color from drawing it to a spring temper. Seems like there were a half a dozen processes involved.
If you try this you could get good results, but I would test an example of each part before doing it on a very nice carbine. One thing to remember is some processes were changed as production went along and parts were mixed during rebuilds so you could have a mix of early and late production on any individual Krag.
On a barreled receiver there is a fairly large gap with the square threads. Lots of room to hold fluid, If you do go down this route compressed air and distilled water could be used to flush out your soda to prevent rusting in there. I would do it multiple times to get out all the soda and crud.
You mentioned your process would remove browning and I just recently heard the bluing of krag barrels was akin to a browning process. BR in the past has posted a list of all the parts of a krag and how they were treated or colored. It is a mix match with almost each part treated differently. Notice the pretty blue on the extractor that is probably the oxide color from drawing it to a spring temper. Seems like there were a half a dozen processes involved.
If you try this you could get good results, but I would test an example of each part before doing it on a very nice carbine. One thing to remember is some processes were changed as production went along and parts were mixed during rebuilds so you could have a mix of early and late production on any individual Krag.
On a barreled receiver there is a fairly large gap with the square threads. Lots of room to hold fluid, If you do go down this route compressed air and distilled water could be used to flush out your soda to prevent rusting in there. I would do it multiple times to get out all the soda and crud.