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Re: I'm confused about what I have here.
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:05 pm
by Warpspasm
Whig wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:54 pm
Your question about hand guards is very appropriate. The hand guard has to be correct for the exact Krag rear sight that you have. All of the Krag rear sights have the same screw holes but may require slightly different screws depending on which sight you mount. The Krags are known for quite a variety of sight changes over their short military service but they are inter changeable. It is important to understand, also, that different rear sights require different front sight blades. Your after market front sight could be too high for your rear sight and might need to be filed down or altered. (It could also be too low but probably not-just need to test on targets.)
The picture below is from the pictures page for this KCA website. That link is given below also. Check out the pictures of the rear sights and hand guards to learn more about what you have and need. ("R" is rifle and "C" is carbine-referring to the sight, not the firearm it's on.)
keep us informed of any progress!
http://kragcollectorsassociation.org/photos/
Great help. Looking at what I currently have, I'm still not sure which would work. I have a carbine stock, but the rear sight looks like a 1902. It has the small rotating peep. My guess is, I would need the guard in the center of the picture, labeled 1898 R/C 1902 R/C. If that's the case I would need to change the band, but it doesn't look like these hanguards are cut for a band.
Re: I'm confused about what I have here.
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:20 pm
by Baltimoreed
Had no idea it was a mortal sin to alter a handguard. Hope that only applies to Krags because I’ve chopped up a few for my various builds, M1a’s, ‘03s, 03a3s, but NO Krag handguards.
Re: I'm confused about what I have here.
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:24 pm
by Warpspasm
butlersrangers wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:49 pm
Attached photo shows a model 1896 (rifle) sight with an 1896 carbine stock, hand-guard and barrel-band. The correct carbine sight looks similar, but, is graduated to '20' and has other subtle differences and "c" markings.
Will the 1896 carbine band work on this rifle if I don't use a handguard, or does it rely on slipping over a thin section of handguard wood?
Re: I'm confused about what I have here.
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:44 pm
by butlersrangers
A model 1896 carbine barrel-band will fit on your rig.
It will look goofy with your model 1902 rear-sight, because it was 'shaped' for the 1896 sight.
It will be retained by the stock and band-spring, but, IMHO - it will look strange without a hand-guard.
What you have looks pleasant and useful. (I would use it, as is, and patiently look for other parts showing up in time).
Re: I'm confused about what I have here.
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:04 pm
by Warpspasm
butlersrangers wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:44 pm
A model 1896 carbine barrel-band will fit on your rig.
It will look goofy with your model 1902 rear-sight, because it was 'shaped' for the 1896 sight.
It will be retained by the stock and band-spring, but, IMHO - it will look strange without a hand-guard.
What you have looks pleasant and useful. (I would use it, as is, and patiently look for other parts showing up in time).
I'm just thinking about things to do. This will never be a collectible, but it would be fun to work on getting it to look more like the original. I don't think I would fool with the front sight because it would be too much hassle and I'm afraid taking it off would create it's own set of problems. I do like the 1892 rear sight and don't really want to change that. Especially given the cost of a 1896 carbine rear sight. I would really like to have an 1896 carbine handguard and carbine band. If the reason an 1896 handguard won't fit is because of the length of the 1892 rear sight, I might be willing to pick up an aftermarket handguard and try to open up the sight cutout to fit. I can't imagine it being that difficult. If it would require more that just opening up the port, then that's a different story.
Re: I'm confused about what I have here.
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:25 pm
by butlersrangers
'Warpspasm' - I believe you typed model 1892 sight, when you meant model 1902. You are in the wrong decade and century!
This may be confusing to others, because there is a model 1892 sight.
This was the sight put on our first U.S. Krag, "The U.S. Magazine Rifle - model of 1892", which started being produced in 1894.
The hand-guard for the 1902 sight has an opening that extends farther to the rear and the front part of the hand-guard & its spring retaining-clip are in front of where your barrel-band is located.
The 1896 carbine hand-guard projects slightly in front of the 1896 sight-base. The projection is 'stepped' and inserts into the rear of the 'sight-protecting' barrel-band.
Attached photos of: 1. A 1902 hand-guard sight opening.
2. A 'faux' carbine, I made, from a cut-down 1896 rifle, an altered 1898 rifle stock, 1896 carbine barrel-band, and 1896 rifle sight.
The stock bolt-handle opening was changed to accommodate the 1896 action.
The stock 'shoulder', that positions the barrel-band, was moved rearward to the sight.
The hand-guard was salvaged from a damaged 1896 rifle hand-guard.
Re: I'm confused about what I have here.
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:06 pm
by Warpspasm
butlersrangers wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:25 pm
'Warpspasm' - I believe you typed model 1892 sight, when you meant model 1902. You are in the wrong decade and century!
This may be confusing to others, because there is a model 1892 sight.
This was the sight put on our first U.S. Krag, "The U.S. Magazine Rifle - model of 1892", which started being produced in 1894.
The hand-guard for the 1902 sight has an opening that extends farther to the rear and the front part of the hand-guard & its spring retaining-clip are in front of where your barrel-band is located.
The 1896 carbine hand-guard projects slightly in front of the 1896 sight-base. The projection is 'stepped' and inserts into the rear of the 'sight-protecting' barrel-band.
Attached photos of: 1. A 1902 hand-guard sight opening.
2. A 'faux' carbine, I made, from a cut-down 1896 rifle, an altered 1898 rifle stock, 1896 carbine barrel-band, and 1896 rifle sight.
The stock bolt-handle opening was changed to accommodate the 1896 action.
The stock 'shoulder', that positions the barrel-band, was moved rearward to the sight.
The hand-guard was salvaged from a damaged 1896 rifle hand-guard.
Hahaha.... yep you're right. I did mean to type 1902 and not 1892. I have NO idea why I did that. So, are you saying I COULD modify an 1896 hand guard to fit around an 1892 sight by opening up the hole and changing the barrel band?
Re: I'm confused about what I have here.
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:02 pm
by Local Boy
Hi Warpspasm,
IMHO: I personally would not want to modify an original Krag 1896 hand guard as they are very expensive and hard to come by.
Another alternative is to use a repro hand guard, however they are also becoming a hard to find item as well. The web site, listed below, used to be a good source of repro Krag hand guards... Unfortunately they are currently backlogged and not taking orders due to heavy demand:
http://www.partsforantiqueguns.com/Krag ... guards.htm
Welcome to the forum and good luck as to whatever you decide.
Re: I'm confused about what I have here.
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:44 pm
by Warpspasm
Local Boy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:02 pm
Hi Warpspasm,
IMHO: I personally would not want to modify an original Krag 1896 hand guard as they are very expensive and hard to come by.
Another alternative is to use a repro hand guard, however they are also becoming a hard to find item as well. The web site, listed below, used to be a good source of repro Krag hand guards... Unfortunately they are currently backlogged and not taking orders due to heavy demand:
http://www.partsforantiqueguns.com/Krag ... guards.htm
Welcome to the forum and good luck as to whatever you decide.
Thanks. I have no intention of trying to modify an authentic carbine hand guard. I would only try it on a repro. IF I can find one.
Re: I'm confused about what I have here.
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:26 am
by Baltimoreed
Thought that I’d mention that I used a m1a walnut handguard on my buds carbine to school rifle project. Used steel mauser handguard clips. We tried it on my buds assembled rifle Saturday with his warm [read hot] handloads and it held. Might be an alternative if you have woodworking skills. I’ve used two of these so far, one on my T20 Garand build and the Krag rebuild. Here it is before I jbwelded in the clips. The rear clip had to be done twice but both held after firing 20 rds. You could use rivets too as there are holes in the clips [the first mauser handguard I bought had small screws holding in the clips]. As short as that guard is you might mess with a shorter used garand guard.