So first post on a forum of any kind, so forgive me if this is in the incorrect place.
Backstory is I have always been interested in Krag rifles but I was uneducated on configuration or authenticity. I have always been into guns but this was my first step into the milsurp world, I found a 1898 Krag rifle listed for $1100 at a local gun show and I was able to talk him down on price to $850, I knew about sporterizing firearms so I avoided short stock rifles. This was what appeared to be a unaltered rifle featuring a full length stock and no alterations. So after getting home I did some more research and realized that rifles only come with a 30 inch barrel and this had a 22 inch barrel, after being exited I possibly had a school rifle or even a Phillipine constabulary carbine lol I know.... but as I said I was uneducated on Krag specifics. Turns out it is what I believe to be a stokes kirk short rifle featuring a front sight of their make, oh well at least it could be a good shooter right?
Well maybe not, got some new Graf brass and it wouldn't chamber without some force and then shoulder deformation, well maybe the brass just needs resized? Wrong again same problem and I am now at a lost as to what could be the issue.
Did the previous owner change the bolt and cause a headspace issue?
Any incite would be appreciated Thank you
Problem with chambering new brass
- butlersrangers
- Posts: 9880
- Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
- Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan
Re: Problem with chambering new brass
'Zac952' - Welcome to the KCA Forum.
What first comes to mind is that there is some material obstructing the neck area of your Krag's chamber.
Corrosion, a section of separated cartridge case, weld material to deactivate, or a 'ring' of Lead, if oversized cast bullets were fired in the rifle, are possibilities that come to mind.
A close inspection of your Krag's chamber should reveal if anything is suspicious.
I don't know your gun knowledge and experience.
(It is pretty easy to damage a chamber using improper clearing techniques).
Regular bore-brushes, nito-powder solvents, and Cleaning-Rods & patches should be fine. Cleaning will likely help reveal the source of the problem.
Posting some pictures of your damaged cartridge-cases could provide clues and useful feedback.
If things are beyond your ability, take the Krag to a qualified gunsmith or seek out an experienced Krag 'gun guy' and have him take a look.
What first comes to mind is that there is some material obstructing the neck area of your Krag's chamber.
Corrosion, a section of separated cartridge case, weld material to deactivate, or a 'ring' of Lead, if oversized cast bullets were fired in the rifle, are possibilities that come to mind.
A close inspection of your Krag's chamber should reveal if anything is suspicious.
I don't know your gun knowledge and experience.
(It is pretty easy to damage a chamber using improper clearing techniques).
Regular bore-brushes, nito-powder solvents, and Cleaning-Rods & patches should be fine. Cleaning will likely help reveal the source of the problem.
Posting some pictures of your damaged cartridge-cases could provide clues and useful feedback.
If things are beyond your ability, take the Krag to a qualified gunsmith or seek out an experienced Krag 'gun guy' and have him take a look.
Re: Problem with chambering new brass
it is the ring right around the shoulder
Last edited by Zac952 on Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Problem with chambering new brass
I have cleaned it well using a bronze brush on the chamber area with no change,
- butlersrangers
- Posts: 9880
- Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
- Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan
Re: Problem with chambering new brass
I have never had a problem chambering new .30-40 brass in any of my Krag rifles or carbines.
The slope of the shoulder on your photographed case looks odd to me. Was this case only chambered in your Krag? .... or did you run this through your resizing Die?
A remote possibility is that your barrel is not an original Krag barrel.
It was an old commercial practice for dealers and gunsmiths to make replacement barrels, for the Krag, from used 1903 Springfield barrels.
This entailed shortening and turning-down the 1903 barrel shank, re-cutting the threads, rechambering, cutting an extractor notch, D&T rear-sight holes and attaching a front sight.
The commercial re-chambering jobs were not held to the standards of Springfield Armory.
A real Krag barrel will have a deep letter 'P' stamped, usually on the bottom of the barrel, near the chamber area.
There will also be a light index-line, on the barrel at 9 o'clock, matching-up with an index-line on the front edge of the receiver ring, just in front of the magazine-gate. The extractor notch will be sharp and precise.
A commercially re-barreled Krag, wearing a repurposed 1903 barrel, may show a date & ordnance bomb on the barrel near the front-sight. There may also be some shallow grooves across the barrel, where cross-pins held the 1903 rear-sight collar and 'banded' front-sight in place. The extractor notch may be crude.
Head-Space on the rimmed .30-40 Krag is the distance between the recessed bolt-face and the breech of the barrel, where the rim stops. This free-space ranges from about .064" to .073"and is seldom a problem.
If you have a factory .30-40 round, it would be a good test to see if it chambers.
FWIW - Attached photo shows .30-40 shoulder I am use to.
The slope of the shoulder on your photographed case looks odd to me. Was this case only chambered in your Krag? .... or did you run this through your resizing Die?
A remote possibility is that your barrel is not an original Krag barrel.
It was an old commercial practice for dealers and gunsmiths to make replacement barrels, for the Krag, from used 1903 Springfield barrels.
This entailed shortening and turning-down the 1903 barrel shank, re-cutting the threads, rechambering, cutting an extractor notch, D&T rear-sight holes and attaching a front sight.
The commercial re-chambering jobs were not held to the standards of Springfield Armory.
A real Krag barrel will have a deep letter 'P' stamped, usually on the bottom of the barrel, near the chamber area.
There will also be a light index-line, on the barrel at 9 o'clock, matching-up with an index-line on the front edge of the receiver ring, just in front of the magazine-gate. The extractor notch will be sharp and precise.
A commercially re-barreled Krag, wearing a repurposed 1903 barrel, may show a date & ordnance bomb on the barrel near the front-sight. There may also be some shallow grooves across the barrel, where cross-pins held the 1903 rear-sight collar and 'banded' front-sight in place. The extractor notch may be crude.
Head-Space on the rimmed .30-40 Krag is the distance between the recessed bolt-face and the breech of the barrel, where the rim stops. This free-space ranges from about .064" to .073"and is seldom a problem.
If you have a factory .30-40 round, it would be a good test to see if it chambers.
FWIW - Attached photo shows .30-40 shoulder I am use to.
- Attachments
-
- Faux-NRAcarb3.jpg (95.44 KiB) Viewed 188973 times
Re: Problem with chambering new brass
I recently purchased 100 rounds of new Winchester 30-40 Krag brass. The ends of many cases were not circular so I neck sized them. I then measured case length and found that maybe 20% or so were too long and needed trimming. I won't ever forget a lesson that a friend learned. He had loaded 100 rounds of 22-250 with new brass and discovered that none of them would chamber in his rifle. Had to pull all of them down and resize and trim every case...
Larry
Larry
Re: Problem with chambering new brass
There is something on the end of Zac's case. Is it being forced into a tight throat there? Maybe that ring was already there?
A gunsmith will probably have a bore scope to see if there is part of a separated case stuck in there that will not "clean" out. Should not cost much if anything to peek in there.
If there is some brass stuck or remnants of a weld it should ream out with just with just a couple turns of a reamer.
A gunsmith will probably have a bore scope to see if there is part of a separated case stuck in there that will not "clean" out. Should not cost much if anything to peek in there.
If there is some brass stuck or remnants of a weld it should ream out with just with just a couple turns of a reamer.
Re: Problem with chambering new brass
Below is some scratches on the barrel in which I think possibly was somebody turning in the barrel.
Re: Problem with chambering new brass
Yes that ring on the brass is new after tightly closing the bolt, although I have no bore scope I looked at the chamber with a light as well as I could and then used a bamboo skewer to feel the shoulder area of the chamber, it doesn't get stuck on anything and feels like a smooth transition from chamber to barrel.
- butlersrangers
- Posts: 9880
- Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm
- Location: Below the Bridge, Michigan
Re: Problem with chambering new brass
'Zac952' - The 'squiggly' mark on your barrel is likely a steel lot - ID mark. Most Krag barrels have such a mystery marking.
The "P" I am referring to was a deeply stamped Proof Mark.
It does appear your barrel has vise marks, that suggest civilian barrel work. It may have simply been harshly clamped in a vise, while the barrel was being shortened, recrowned, and the banded front-sight installed. It is also possible the barrel was changed.
Photo showing "P" and index marks. (The "P" is on all Krag barrels, but not always on the bottom).
The "P" I am referring to was a deeply stamped Proof Mark.
It does appear your barrel has vise marks, that suggest civilian barrel work. It may have simply been harshly clamped in a vise, while the barrel was being shortened, recrowned, and the banded front-sight installed. It is also possible the barrel was changed.
Photo showing "P" and index marks. (The "P" is on all Krag barrels, but not always on the bottom).
- Attachments
-
- index mark and barrel P.jpg (94.61 KiB) Viewed 188952 times
Last edited by butlersrangers on Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.