Krag Collectors Association Forum

Dear KCA Members,

I'm a newbie to this site and I (almost) own a M1896 Krag Carbine (SN 68868) made in 1897. I can't wait to pick it up next week.

I'm curious to know how many '96 Carbines were made and, of this number, how many are known to exist. (I'm confident that someone out there knows.)

Thanks & best to all!

GALEM96C

Welcome to the K.C.A. Lots of great info here on Krag rifles from a bunch of great members. According to my book on U.S. Krag rifles by William S. Brophy there were 22,054 1896 carbines made. As far as how many are still out there. Thats a good question. I have heard some quotes of a 80% attrition rate. I do not know if that is true or how that number was arrived at. It sounds like you are going to own one of the survivors. Good luck with your new Krag and we would like to see some pics when you get it.

'GALEM96C' - Welcome to the KCA Forum.

The U.S. model 1896 Krag carbine, which you are acquiring, #68868, was likely manufactured in July, 1897.
(Coincidentally, the Author Joe Poyer noted in his book, "The American Krag Rifle and Carbine", that by the end of July, 1897, 12,022 model 1896 carbines had been produced).

Your carbine's serial number happens to be listed in Springfield Research Services (SRS) data.
The SRS data are lists of U.S. Military arms' serial numbers that author Frank Mallory and helpers found mentioned in official government documents.

Per the serial numbers listed in the Appendix of Mallory's book, "The Krag Rifle Story", 2nd edition:

#68868 - 96C - 07/31/1922 - Raritan Arsenal (SOLD)

I imagine this indicates your carbine was pulled out of storage in 1922 to fill a 'private sales order', authorized by the Director of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM, now called the CMP).

'Knute' gave you a likely 'total production number for model 1896 U.S. carbines. (22,058 sounds realistic).
I doubt it is possible to know the number of model 1896 carbines, that have survived.

We would enjoy seeing photos of your Krag carbine after it arrives.

Be advised that some model 1896 carbines were officially updated with a latter model 1899 style stock, longer hand-guard, and 1901 or 1902 rear-sight.
(These updated versions dispensed with the "carbine sling-bar & ring", since the carbines were being carried in a saddle-scabbard).
"Model 1896 carbines" can be marked: 1895, 1896, or MODEL 1896.

Thanks to King Carp and butlersrangers for their quick and knowledgable responses to my query.

I will post better pix when I get my grubby hands on it. (Soon, I hope.) In the meantime, below are some quickies I took in the back of the seller's SUV. I'm hoping that they help to verify that this is legit.

These things lead me (novice) to believe it's an "original" M96C: (1) Has "C" stamped opposite "20" on rear sight, (2) has saddle bar & ring, (3) has rounded end of barrel (not cut-off?), (4) front sight appears to be correct for the model. Cartouches have been obiterated by handling. Before I take it, I will ensure the barrel is exactly 22" from tip of barrel to bolt. I will also measure the stock (which looks to be original; see pic).

Is there any other check I can make to ensure it is "original"? For example, bolt markings, etc.?

BTW: Does its SRS listing re: 1922 provenance indicate "originality"?

Thanks to all for helping me obtain a good one in honor of my distant Cousin who served in the Span-Am War.

Cheers & best

I bought a micrometer from a guy selling them from the trunk of his car. Turned out to be a legitimate Mitutoyo mike before you could buy them at tool supply houses. Still works great and i bought an identical one about 20 years ago in case I ever wore the first one out. Looks like that will not happen. I hope you do as well.

That appears to be a very legitimate U.S. model 1896 carbine.

It is in the most desirable original stock configuration with a correct rear-sight and carbine sling-bar & ring.

Wood markings became faint after a stock was arsenal refurbished. Also, broken stocks got replaced 'in the field' with spare unmarked ones.

IMHO - The SRS listing offsets the lack of a stock 'cartouche', when valuing this carbine.
The wood looks to be in nice shape and correct! It doesn't appear 'sanded', the metal fits correctly and the forearm finger-grooves are sharp.

Thanks bultersrangers!

You and the others have confirmed my beliefs. I appreciate it.

Thanks & best

Krag carbines were in high demand when they became available for the public to purchase. The short barrel made them very handy for hunting purposes and they were relatively inexpensive. As the carbines became less available more and more of the full length rifles were "sporterized" and shortened to "carbine" length. Below is the table Butlersrangers referred to in the counting of rifles/carbines from the Ordnance Department fiscal year reports.

Nice looking carbine.

Thanks for the table, Knute1. I appreciate it.

Cheers & best

Knute - Thanks for your "Krag Count by Fiscal Year" Table. (Actually, I did not have a copy of it or make reference to it).

Note - I quoted Joe Poyer and it appears he was mistaken in his table (page 233), when he noted that 12,022 model 1896 carbines were completed by July 1897.

(Your Table seems correct in showing that 12,022 is the number of model 1896 carbines that were assembled in the 1898 Fiscal Year, running from July 1897 to June 1898).
The 'block' of 12,022 model 1896 carbines were probably assembled in the period from July 1897 to October/November 1897.

The O.P.'s Krag carbine, serial number 68868, would likely have been assembled in July 1897.
By the end of June in 1897, it appears 10,041 model 1896 Krag carbines had been assembled:
7,111 from FY ending June 30, 1896
2,930 from FY ending June 30, 1897

FWIW (based on approximate 'blocks' of serial numbers) - The first model 1896 carbines (marked 1895) must have been produced around November or December 1895.
The last of the model 1896 carbines were probably assembled in October or November 1897.

The 5,002 carbines built in the FY ending June 30, 1899, were the model 1898 carbines. These carbines were likely assembled in August/September/October of 1898.

Model 1899 carbine production appears to have started about a year later, in September 1899.