Krag Collectors Association Forum

Looks like there are at least a few other Winchester-Lee enthusiasts floating around in here, so I thought I’d post a picture of my navy contract example (17765). I also have a rough factory sporter I use for testing new loads, and a nicer factory sporter on the way.

Ha! The Winchester-Lee is an evil, rotten rifle that should not be in the hands of any one, except me. Here, I will do you a big favor by taking it off your hands for five bucks and putting it somewhere safe so the world can worry about more pressing things such as why rabbit crap is spherical. Saving my fellow man from the scourge Winchester Lee rifles is what I do.

Ooooooo! And you have a sling swivel. Does that mean you have a (GASP) sling, too? I will add your WL serial number to my census spreadsheet. Would like the serial number of your sporter for the list also. Please.

Good looking rifle you have there. So what are you using for ammo?

Unfortunately I don't have a sling. My sporters are 12463 and 13368 if you want those for your spreadsheet as well.

My current load is 33gr H4350 under a Hornady #2458 105gr HPBT in custom RCC brass seated to 3.110" COAL. Not super happy with that bullet choice, but I haven't done much experimenting yet. I tried to switch to a Speer 105gr RN and I had sticky extraction and a primer blowout, so I'm not excited to try that one again. When my RCC brass runs out, I plan to convert .220 Swift brass.

Hmmmm. Years ago I bought two batches of reformed 25-06 ammo from Buffalo Arms. Shot a few of them and then went to the Mid-East and Africa to command the KCA Africa Corps. After I got back this past February I found every one of the remaining cartridges has split necks. Yippee. So I broke them down. I had presence of mind to weigh several loads from both batches and found whatever powder they were using came in at thirty-one grains. The bullet of choice back then was Hornady's now discontinued #2455, 100 grain RN, so I grabbed as many as I could for my ammo project. Of course, that occurred before I found out Hornady stopped making them. I think I am sitting on sixteen hundred bullets give or take at the moment.

And then there are the 110 original pieces of brass I bought from a guy that I have not used since I wanted to tread lightly so I did not ruin them before I got my game plan laid out.

As for new brass I am thinking 240 Weatherby is a possible way forward. Case and neck length is sufficient and when the belt is turned off if appears there is still enough meat in the web area to handle any pressure as long as non-hot loads are used.

Before the current load, I was using 31gr IMR 4895 based on load data from an American Rifleman article. After circling the wagons with some knowledgeable reloaders and messing around it QL, it was decided that 4895 leaves you with kind of a narrow margin between not enough case fill and too much pressure. 33gr 4350 gave both better fill and lower pressure. Haven’t put it on paper yet, though. Just wanted to make sure I didn’t blow up first.

That is interesting. I wonder how other powders rated for 243-6mm range would be for loading. Again, not the hot end of the spectrum loads.

From somewhere, don't remember where and "the book" on the Winchester-Lee Navy seems to have disappeared, I recall that the USMC made some modifications to the bolts of the rifles when in service. IIRC, this was some sort of steel shield across the rear of the bolt. It seems to have been intended to save the shooter's eye or life should a hot load case failure let hot gas back or blow the striker assembly out of the bolt.

When I retired (2007) I went on a Lee Navy search. Learning about the USMC in-service modification, followed by the death of a Lee Navy shooter, ended that search. Does anyone know anything about the USMC modification?

I believe you're referring to Eugene Myszkowski's "The Winchester-Lee Rifle". May want to mount a search and rescue operation for that one, because copies are expensive and very hard to find. The shield was pinned to the back of the bolt on the first contract rifles (1-10000). Almost all of them received that modification, so it's quite rare to find unmodified examples. You will sometimes see some that had the shield fall off, but still have the two pins sticking out. They made the shield an integral part of the bolt body on the rifles in the sporter block (10001-15000) and the 2nd contract (15001-20000). The rifles in the sporter block also have an extra gas escape hole, which was part of a group of minor improvements suggested by Winchester, but the Navy requested that most of those improvements not be made on their rifles.

The shield does not block the firing pin assembly from being ejected toward your face in the event of a major case rupture, so it's probably wise to avoid getting too adventurous in your loads. If you want to maximize safety, it's probably best to stick to the factory sporters since they have better gas mitigation and were less likely to be exposed to salt water or steamy jungles for long periods of time.

The shield is by the bullet tip on the left side in the first picture. The other pictures are comparisons between the 2nd USN contract (top) and factory sporter (bottom) receivers. Note the extra gas escape hole in the bolt and the side of the receiver on the sporter

Son of a gun. I didn't know all that. I looked at 1239 to see what I had. It has the pinned on plate and two vent holes. I can just make out the line at the plate and one of the pins. Dang. They were machinist gods. The second contract rifle (17957) has the built in mod and one vent hole.

Of course history only knows if those are the original bolts. Could be a case of IRAN per Joe Farmer.