1899 Carbine

[sfal]

cleaning this for a friend, my first Krag experience, I love the history and the workmanship/machine work that went into these.
From what I have gathered and been told, this carbine has a rifle sight and corresponding Italian walnut handguard.
Just not sure which sight would be correct and would fit the 2 factory holes 1901 or 1902?
Gun was very dirty, caked with dust, stock was almost black from grime.
Sn 361716
good bore
there isnt a cartouche on the stock it is just marked with a V on bottom of wrist behind trigger guard (a replacement?)
no cleaning parts in stock
wondering if finish is org and would the numbers on inside of butt plate be fitment numbers or do they corrospond to a serial number of a different gun?
thanks for any input/insight
Al
pics link
https://imgur.com/a/qBCHoVD

[ebruce]

Beautiful rifle. Following this post. Sincerely. bruce.

[Blueheeler]

Can we get a pic of the front sight? Any markings on the blade?

[sfal]

Will look again but all I remember is it's just marked with a C
Thanks al

[butlersrangers]

'Al' - Welcome to the KCA Forum. I responded to some of your questions posted on the GUNBOARDS FORUM.

I have taken the liberty of copying some of the pictures that you posted on Gunboards and will post them here.
The link to 'imgur' is not opening for me.
(I always find it a nuisance to go off to another site to view photos. They also expire in a short period of time.
When photos are gone, the thread becomes useless for future reference).

Your friend owns a real U.S. model 1899 carbine, serial number 361716, that was assembled around December, 1901.
(Springfield Armory turned out carbines in batches. This one falls in the '3rd Block' or group of 1899 carbines).

I believe this gun's current model 1899 carbine stock and model 1896 rifle handguard are American walnut, (not Italian).
The wood is possibly light in color, because the finish was stripped or bleached out.

The metal and wood look rather nice. The worst blemish is that someone has put a Krag model 1896 rifle rear-sight and rifle handguard on a carbine.
When manufactured, this carbine was likely fitted with the 1901 carbine rear-sight and a 1901 handguard that was identical for both carbines and rifles.

Later 1899 carbine handguards incorporated a protective wood 'hump' to protect the M-1901 carbine rear-sight or M-1896 carbine rear-sight.

The Krag barrel rear-sight holes have the same spacing and location on all U.S. models of carbines and rifles.
(Any U.S. Krag sight will fit any U.S. Krag barrel, but only certain sights are correct).
Conceivably, model 1901, 1896, or 1902 carbine rear-sights could have been put on an 1899 carbine in the 3rd Block.

These different Sight models require specific screws and specific handguards, (because of differences in sight-bases and sight-openings in the handguards).

If the front sight-blade is marked with a small "C", it is a good sign that it is an original 1899 carbine front-sight.
An 1896 sight requires a front-sight blade that is shorter, (than the blade used with 1901 & 1902 sights), and the "C" is hidden by the sight base.

(A clear photo of the carbine front-sight and muzzle area would provide useful clues).


The small numbers on the inside of the butt-plate and butt-trap were used to keep these fitted-parts together, and not related to the rest of the arm.

A Krag stock that lacks both a side cartouche and a circled "P" behind the trigger guard, is likely a 'field replacement' or was a surplus stock put on by a dealer or hobbyist. The 'V' you noticed was probably an inspector or stocker's mark.

The metal looks like it has an Armory/Arsenal original or rebuild finish. The current metal finish should be preserved.

Probably, given the current price of original carbine sights and handguards, it would be prudent to keep and properly mount his 1896 rifle sight and handguard.
It is not correct but can look good.
A model 1901 carbine rear-sight and rifle handguard will easily cost him an outlay $500 to $600.
A model 1896 carbine rear-sight can cost $900 to $1,000, if found!
your friend might recoup $300 to $400 by selling his current sight and handguard.

When installing or removing a Krag handguard, Do Not snap it on and off the barrel. Remove the rear-sight and take the barreled/action out of the stock.
The handguard can be slid down the barrel taper toward the muzzle and taken off easily. Reverse the process to install.
Store the handguard with a Quarter twisted into the rear spring-clip and a Penny or Nickel in the front clip, to counteract the heavy tension on the wood.

[butlersrangers]

There is a link down in 'KCA Member News', that will take you to the KCA main page. If you select the 'photos tab' you will see all kinds of interesting stuff, like the attached photo-guide on Handguards.

More of Al's pictures from Gunboards. (Note - 1896 sight is shown backwards in the first 1896 sight & handguard photo).

[sfal]

thanks for the input....
I was only referring to the hanguard as Italian...after washing the stock and guard...(it came out alot cleaner than others i have done, M1 Carbines, Garand etc)
when I first saw the handguard I thought what is this beech?, I hadnt heard of the Italian walnut by then, so I looked up Krag wood and realized what it may be. I stained it to match the stock then applied raw linseed...so they look the same.
The grain on the handguard is to me, very different than the stock...
I agree on posting pics here for the same reasons....
I have added pics of frt sight and muzzle....I must saw i have learned alot in the last week...Love the history

when i give it back ...my plan is to see if he wants to sell it....if so looks like i will be on hunt for correct sight and handguard:)
Al

[Whig]

There's a possibility that the hand guard is a reproduction piece made with a different wood than the American Walnut and was lighter in color also. Just a thought. Doesn't matter if it fits well and you did a good job staining it and using the BLO.

[Ned Butts]

There is a link down in 'KCA Member News', that will take you to the KCA main page. If you select the 'photos tab' you will see all kinds of interesting stuff, like the attached photo-guide on Handguards

There is also a link at the top of this section under "Announcements"

[butlersrangers]

'Al' - Is this photo of the handguard, before the finish was removed?
What was used to clean and remove the finish from the wood?

I believe you said (on Gunboards) the inside of the handguard is marked '99'?

FWIW - A lot of original handguards have a small '99' stamped on the inside barrel-channel, at the 'action-end'.
It is possible the number served as an 'identifier'.
Maybe, '99' indicated compatibility with the model 1899 carbine stock? (This is pure conjecture on my part).

A small stamped '99' likely indicates your handguard is an original one and not a reproduction.

(p.s. - Your front-sight blade and base look good, to me).