1899 Carbine

[sfal]

Yes that is the hand guard before I cleaned it....and I realized that I had put the sight in backwards after I posted the pic
Most time on stocks that aren't to grungy I just use Murphy's oil soap warm water and a GI tooth brush, then blow off with compressed air so water doesnt soak into wood.
let sit for a day or so then wipe in raw linseed, sometimes a another coat after afew days.

I started this technique yrs ago after someone on a Luger forum suggested cleaning Luger wood grips this way, after they are blown off and sit a day, you think to your self "what did I do"....because of they way they look, somewhat grayish. but after using a toothbrush to rub alittle linseed oil into the checkering they look great.
The murphys takes out the hand grime, depending on level of crud it does take time.

With some rifles as in this one, there is alot more powder residue, and grime, I use foaming bore cleaner, spray it down, (doesn't take much) then work it in with the toothbrush, it pulls alot of grime and residue out, and in this case the stain that was applied originally. (I first tried this to remove alot of powder residue from the barrel channel of a M1 Carbine coming from blow by from gas piston.) Then wash in sink with warm water and the toothbrush brush, then I use some Murphy's oil soap, and brush, to "neutralize" any of the bore cleaner left on surface. Again blowing off with compressed air.

I think I have a pic of the inside of the hand guard if not will take one, yes it is marked 99 or 66 on breach end with a straight line or I at muzzle end
thanks again al

[sfal]

Here are 2 pics of inside of hand guard, my first thought was its marked 66....then it was ok its a model 99 so it must be for that.
But that thought process doesn't make sense if all model 99's were made as Carbine, then this wouldn't be the correct hand guard. Unless there where 99 rifles or another sight was used?
love the history
Al

[butlersrangers]

'Al' - Now with the inside view showing wood grain and details, I think it is an original handguard and you are right about it being Italian Walnut.

The '99' may simply mean that a handguard was manufactured in 1899.
(My wild speculation is that the number might have other significance).

Maybe, the '99' marking was used to indicate that an 1896, 1898/02, or 1901 handguard could be used or would be compatible, with carbines having a model 1899 type of stock, (including the stock variant for 'updating' model 1896 carbines), and the appropriate rear-sight?

There could have been a perceived need for a handy 'identifier':

1. Some replacement stocks, that were made for updating model 1896 carbines, eventually followed the model 1899 stock pattern and dimensions.
This replacement stock required a rifle-length handguard. (The bolt handle 'cut-out' on this 1899 type stock is 'machine-cut' to accept the 1896 action).

2. M-1896 carbine rear-sights were used on model 1896, model 1898 and, as a stopgap, on some model 1899 carbines.
A handguard with a sight protecting 'hump' was eventually devised, to go with M-1896 carbine rear-sights and the longer 1899 pattern of carbine stock.

3. Maybe, prior to the manufacture of the 'protective' handguard, the regular model 1896 rifle handguards were used?
This would have worked on model 1896, 1898, and 1899 carbines, assembled with 1896 carbine rear-sights and the longer model 1899 carbine style stock.

If I recall correctly, I have only seen the number '99', stamped on a variety of original Krag handguards, accommodating the different rear-sight models.
(I don't recall seeing '96', '97', '98', '00', '01', etc).
Maybe other KCA Members have handguards with different 'year stamps'?

It is always possible '99' is just an inspector's mark?

'Al' - Your latest photo shows the distinctive little 'crescent grain' that seems to show up in some European walnut and beech wood.

[sfal]

Pic of butt under plate....B with something else next to it...
Thanks al

[butlersrangers]

The 'B' is probably an inspector or worker's mark.
It may indicate that the bored holes and 'butt-plate fit' are complete and comply with inspection gauges.

Look at the stock area where the receiver/magazine-box seats. You will probably see a letter or two there.
The bolt and magazine-box have numerous markings probably indicating sub-inspections, workers, and steel lots, that were meaningful during manufacture.
Regrettably, the exact meaning of these marks appears lost in time.

The "P" on the barrel bottom indicates the barrel underwent 'proof' firing. The "U" on the barrel-band is an 'assembly aid' and should be on the right-side of the arm. If a Krag has a stock 'cartouche', it will usually be a fancy script [J.S.A.] for Joseph Sumner Adams and the year of acceptance.
Bottom line, most of the subtle markings on a U.S. Krag are headscratchers

It does look like your main stock wood is American Black Walnut. It may have been better if you had used less aggressive cleaning procedures.
But, we never had a view of what you were presented with at the beginning. Your friend and you are the ones that have to like the end result.

[butlersrangers]

FWIW - Here are a couple views of areas on an Italian walnut Model 1898 U.S. Krag rifle stock.
It was apparently stained to darken the stock, probably to fit in more with a unit's other rifles.

The first photo shows the distinctive 'crescent grain' & [J.S.A. - 1900] acceptance 'cartouche'.
The second photo shows a 'circled "P" proof mark', indicating the rifle was tested for function.

Replacement stocks installed at an Ordnance Department facility might lack or have a prior acceptance cartouche, but have one or more circled proof marks.

New stocks used for field replacement may lack both cartouche and circled "P".

[sfal]

"It may have been better if you had used less aggressive cleaning procedures.

I couldnt agree more....I went with what I used on M1 Carbines....and works well...the down side to this stock is I didnt know that there was stain in it. Which the cleaner pulled out, I was somewhat shocked it came out so clean, and now I know why.

Had I known before hand it was stained I would have just used the Murhpy's and it wouldn't have pulled the stain out.

here is a pic of inside stock not sure what letter it is suppose to represent
Also a pic of the muzzle with a 30.06 US match rd in it, I assume it works the same, if not close, to doing this with a M1 Carbine to show wear.

Thanks again...Al
ps; guy is coming soon to pic it up, hope I can become the next caretaker of it:)

[butlersrangers]

Bore does not appear worn.

I haven't seen the distinctive European grain on the photos of the stock, but it might be Italian walnut?

[sfal]

I dont think the stock is Italian....this pic is after cleaning...and looks more like a M1 carbine stock in color...the hand guard was very yellow
guy picked up the carbine...he loved it.... and would sell it if his son who is away isnt interested in it...so will have to wait to see how that turns out....I miss it already:)
Al

[butlersrangers]

Yes, that last photo does look like American black walnut.

I hope that Model 1899 carbine finds its way back to you!