Norweigian Krag ID help!

[erichhonecker]

Good Evening,

I hope you are all well! I am wondering whether you may be able to help ID this Krag if possible? I am new to shooting and have a great passion for old historic service rifles. The perspective is a bit odd on the photos but 'm confused - listed as a 'Lang Krag Carbine' apparently? Doesn't seem to fit anything I've seen on this page (I'm looking at the 'waffle' bolt in particular as well as the drilled reciever?) https://surplused.com/index.php/2014/05 ... en-rifles/

I am also wondering whether the reciever is one of the 'strengthened' ones or not?

Thank you for your help in advance.

[butlersrangers]

'erichhonecker' - Welcome to the KCA Forum.

It appears to me that the Krag you are inquiring about is a Norwegian model 1894 rifle, built at the Kongsberg Arms Factory, in 1922.
The current Bolt is a serial number 'mismatch' and is likely from one of the Norwegian carbine models.

The drilled and tapped holes, on the right-side of the receiver, were likely a Civilian addition, for the mounting of one of the various Norwegian commercial 'Diopter Sights'.
In the U.S., we call such sights Receiver 'Peep' sights.

The rifle looks rather nice and may have been the property of a Norwegian Competitive Shooter at a Civilian Club.

[KingsPointer]

Looks like a private purchase m/1894 Krag-Jorgensen with a m/1912 carbine bolt swapped in for whatever reason. At one point it must have mounted a diopter rear sight, which seems to have been very commonly used in the civilian competition scene.

[erichhonecker]

Thank you both very much for your speedy replies! It is very interesting to hear of the background of these classic rifles. Hopefully I will be able to purchase this one in the coming week or two.

Any recommendations for ammunition usage? I have read varying things about using factory ammunition through these rifles. Would the following be reasonable?

IE: PPU 6.5x55 -

Technical Information
•Caliber: 6.5mm x 55 Swedish
•Bullet Weight: 139 Grains
•Bullet Style: FMJ BT
•Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:
•Muzzle Velocity: 775 m/s
•Muzzle Energy: 2700 j

I wish to be very careful with these old pieces!

[Cat Man]

Congratulations on your new rifle. I'll try and answer your question about shooting modern commercial ammunition in your Krag.
I own and shoot Norwegian Krag rifles and Swedish Mauser Rifles all in 6.5X55 MM. And have dug very deep into the subject.
There is a mountain of information, misinformation, wives tales, misquoted rumors and some real data published. But in different languages and units of measure.
All that make it difficult to reach a simple answer to "Is it safe". I have been researching it now for a few years and can report what I have learned.

In the beginning as they say, Norway and Sweden selected a common military rifle cartridge - the famous 6.5X55 MM. Remember that was in the 1890's.
The two different rifle designs used different machining, materials and methods that continued to improve, change and be modified over the 50 years of production.
The Mauser is generally accepted to be the stronger of the two rifles. Now remember we are shooting 120 year old artifacts.

The difference in the two rifle actions has been shown to NOT result in catastrophic failures. Most (but not all) Norwegian Krags have a sharp corner at the receiver ring. Over many years and many many rounds fired they can develop a crack at that location. The Swedish Mauser has a radius at that location that eliminates the issue. To that end, the Norwegian shooting societies have over the years reduced the recommended maximum chamber pressure from the original metric 3500 bar down to 3300 bar (in 1967) and again reduced it further to 2800 bar in the early 1970's thus preserving the service life of their treasured Krags.

Todays commercial 6.5X55 ammunition is standardized for and labeled as 6.5X55MM SWEDISH (doesn't say Krag).

Over the the last 100 years Swedish military ammo increased in pressure from 3200 bar to 3300 bar in 1960.
The Commercial Scandinavian ammo registry raised the spec to 3800 bar in 1967. Now import the 6.5X55 to North America and start changing pressure units from metric to English,
then change the method of measurement and then add SAAMI, CIP, and modern SKAN standards all just slightly different. And there are not any simple straight line conversion factors for your calculator.

So at the end of the day. I shoot some wonderfully accurate 1980's surplus Swedish pri M/41 and my own jacketed bullet handloads in my Swedish Mausers. My Norwegian Krags are only fed hand loaded (by me) ammunition and that tends to be mild cast bullets reloads . Long answer to your simple question, but worth knowing the "Why".
Enjoy that new old Krag.

Jeff the Caterpillar Man

[butlersrangers]

The PPU ammunition should be very good. Save your Brass and reload, using 'starting loads'.

The 6.5X55mm 'Swedish Mauser - Norwegian Krag' cartridge is a fine performer, with lots of data available.

[erichhonecker]

Thank you all for your help. I really appreciate it. I will update you all on how I get on!!

Cheers

[Bernt]

It's like Cat man says, a lot of rumours and misinformation around regarding the Krag and it's ammunition. I've been researching this as well, and I have the advantage of being norwegian and have acces to relevant sources.

Cat man wrote: "To that end, the Norwegian shooting societies have over the years reduced the recommended maximum chamber pressure from the original metric 3500 bar down to 3300 bar (in 1967) and again reduced it further to 2800 bar in the early 1970's thus preserving the service life of their treasured Krags."

I've seen this on various internet sites too, even here in Norway. But there is absolutely no documentation to be found which support this. Instead of the chamber pressure being reduced in the Krag ammo, it's rather a matter of modern ammo being loaded to higher pressures. In the early 1990's Raufoss used 3500 Bar (350 MPa) as maximum chamber pressure for the Krag and 3800 Bar for Mauser and Sauer (article in the norwegian shooters journal). The "DFS" (the Norwegian shooting organization) are a bit more conservative and set the limit at 3300 Bar (Piezo electro measured).

This is a clip from the 2023 regulations of the Norwegian shooters organization, showing the max. allowed chamber pressure in DFS shooting.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yJUEuo ... Dat5p/view

2023-03-17.png (80.55 KiB) Viewed 7911 times

The ammunition manufacturers should be able to tell you the chamber pressure for their cartridges.

[erichhonecker]

Unfortunately I missed out on the rifle - someone beat me to it

If anyone knows of any Norwegian krags for sale in the UK please let me know!

Cheers from a very disappointed Kragless man!

[butlersrangers]

I am sorry you missed out on the Norwegian Krag.