Clyde Barrow's Krag discussion

[cantgrowup]

Here are my Death Car shotguns... Clyde's Browning Auto 16g and "Bonnies" Remington Model 11 20g.

[Culpeper]

Culpeper - Thanks for playing with the photograph. It confirms a likely 'shortened' rifle barrel and a 'banded' front-sight.

That front-sight could be a myriad of possibilities!

FWIW - That sawed-off pump shotgun has a 15" barrel. I'm not sure about the barrel length of the 'Browning style' semi-auto?

The humor of this whole situation is that, if we only knew Clyde Barrow's Krag serial number, one of the most "valuable" Krags could be a "Bubba'd Deer Rifle" residing in an attic, basement, or barn in Missouri!

Oh, I wouldn't want it! All his Texas relatives would be taking me to court for the return of a 'cobbled up' $300 Krag!

Son of a gun. Lightening the photo does show the high probability of a M1903 front sight. I retract my conclusion.

[cantgrowup]

What's an M1903 front sight? Nevermind... I looked it up. A banded sight from 1903 Springfield. Hmmm.... now I just have to grind off my Krag sight and solder one of these on.

[butlersrangers]

'cantgrowup' - Here is my take on your very nice "School Rifle Type Krag". I wish it was mine.
It is much nicer than Clyde Barrow's ('piece of scheisse') cut-down sporter!

First the good news: You have a real carbine barrel with its original Springfield Armory front sight-base and blade, (note the small "C").
The barrel muzzle area looks properly 'stepped' to accept a Krag bayonet.
Your front barrel-band looks properly 'stretched' and fitted to the carbine barrel contour. This is a rare part, and different from the normal rifle front-band.

You have a real carbine handguard proper for use with the model 1896 sight. Your stock appears to be a properly made School Rifle stock.
There should be a visible seam of a 'filler plug' at the stock-tip.
When rifle stocks were converted for School Rifles, the stock 'lightning channel' was exposed and required a 'filler patch').

The bad news: You have a model 1896 rifle rear-sight and your model 1898 receiver has a serial number (163600) that is too high to be a likely model 1898 carbine.
Most model 1898 carbines will fall in the 118XXX to 125XXX serial number range.

Because of their rarity, model 1898 carbines have often been faked. Also, drilled & tapped 'sportered' carbines may have had their receivers replaced?

Your "school rifle's" high serial number creates a bit of an enigma. (Most school rifles were made from model 1899 marked carbines).

[cantgrowup]

That's pretty good "good news"... What's the bad news?

[butlersrangers]

Another Krag view, with William Daniel Jones, Bonnie & Clyde's 16 -17 year old accomplice.
His mature appearance created considerable confusion for investigators, trying to ID members of the Barrow Gang.

[FredC]

Link to tie the 2 threads

http://kragcollectorsassociation.com/vi ... 1293#p1293

[cantgrowup]

Thanks guys for the help on my Krag. I learned a lot of interesting stuff!

Here are my guns from the famous grill pic. Now all I need is the '32 Ford Model B-400 convertible sedan (in green).



Even though these are not the "real deal", there is still a lot of money laying there! Thankfully, my collection is pretty much complete. Except..... the Dexfield police photo in the linked thread shows a couple of revolvers that I now need to identify and collect. Dang it! Will the madness ever end?

[butlersrangers]

A nice full-size colorized 'graphic' of the front-end of the stolen 'V8' would make a wonderful gun rack for your nice collection.

You are correct. The madness never ends. Do you have a BAR, yet? ... and a few early 1911's?

I can never cease thinking, with all the hours spent living in an automobile, without air conditioning, a pile of lubricated firearms, lunch-meat sandwiches, little brushing & flossing, and clothed in wool, how Bad the 'Barrow Gang' must have smelled!

(I bet they tried to mask it, with cheap cologne and perfume ... or Hoppes #9)!

[cantgrowup]

I have a modern semi-auto Ohio Ordnance BAR M1918A2 that I reconfigured to M1918 WWI config to match the guns Clyde stole. I have a 1917 Colt 1911 that exactly matches the one that was "taken from Clyde's waist" after the ambush and a Colt Detective Special 1st Issue that matches the one found taped to Bonnie's thigh during the autopsy. I have copies of the guns at Alma including the Buck's Winchester Model 12 16g, their Remington UMC 1911, Marshall Humphrey's borrowed S&W Model 1905 (4th change). If you've seen a picture of a B&C gun, chances are I've got a copy. I even collect guns that were erroneously accredited to them, like the Winchester 1901 lever action 10g shotgun that the Waco museum says was found in the Death Car. Clyde was never said to own one... it was a transposition error by authors from Hamer's 1934 inventory of the weapons found Death Car.

But my favorite is the Remington Model 8 .35 Rem with half-pistol grip exactly like the one used by Deputy Sheriff Prentiss Oakley to kill Clyde with the first two premature shots of the ambush. That's the gun I started my collection with and it just snowballed after that.