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Re: New Krag Carbine
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 4:20 pm
by Dick Hosmer
Got to wondering, looking at all the stripped pictures, how many people have taken their "possibles" (defined as believable 98C numbers in 99 stocks) apart, and REALLY fly-specked the under-barrel to check for traces of patina change at the 30" point?
I have a WELL worn trapdoor carbine with the long M1884 sight which matches the gun perfectly, yet is wrong for the serial number. Removing the sight allows three different finishes to be seen on the barrel. Brown where ALWAYS exposed, Blue where ALWAYS covered, and a kind of worn muddy color at the little patch where the '84 sight covered what was exposed while the original '79 sight was fitted.
Wouldn't make the arm any more valuable but it MIGHT help refine the number scattering. Then again. perhaps the '98 carbines were not in their short stocks long enough to leave a mark.
Re: New Krag Carbine
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 6:12 pm
by butlersrangers
The U.S. mints occasionally made mistakes in stamping coins.
It would appear Springfield Armory had some workmen, who on occasion not only struck "C" on the wrong side of the m-1902 carbine sight base, but also on some of the carbine blades.
(Another Krag variant part to look for and collect)?
MooseNugget (aka LocalBoy) has loaned me a copy of Brophey's, "The Krag Rifle", that William Brophy signed to Bill Mook.
Bill Mook made numerous corrections throughout the text.
It appears Mook was aware of model 1899 carbine sight blades being found stamped with the letter "C", on either side, back in 1989.
Re: New Krag Carbine
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 7:25 pm
by Whig
We have seen that on the Krag carbine rear sight bases, also. Quite the variation of which side has the "c" stamped on it for these carbine sight bases.
Re: New Krag Carbine
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 7:46 pm
by butlersrangers
FWIW - It appears to my eye that Jeremy's 'updated model 1898 carbine' received an Italian walnut stock and handguard.
I've marked on his photos the distinctive 'crescent' grain, that is found on some of the European hardwoods.
Re: New Krag Carbine
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 11:27 pm
by butlersrangers
Jeremy - BTW - The Krag oil-bottle and cleaning rod for your carbine's 'butt-trap' is available from 'Granpa's Gun Parts for a reasonable price.
Re: New Krag Carbine
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:08 am
by tke466
butlersrangers wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2023 11:27 pm
Jeremy - BTW - The Krag oil-bottle and cleaning rod for your carbine's 'butt-trap' is available from 'Granpa's Gun Parts for a reasonable price.
I was just looking at that. Great idea!
Re: New Krag Carbine
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:17 am
by butlersrangers
The rods & oiler install like this, though technically, carbines were just equipped with two rod sections. (A folded-up cleaning patch will keep things quiet):
[BTW - There is no doubt in my mind that Jeremy's carbine, #127650, was built as a U.S. model 1898 carbine, saw service in harsh tropical climates, and was officially reconditioned and updated with a model 1899 carbine stock, handguard, barrel-band and sights. All his parts appear to be legitimate carbine parts].
It is neat that the bore survives in excellent condition!
Springfield Armory used something on the scale of 30,000 Italian walnut rifle and carbine stock blanks, during the period 1899 to 1902. This carbine appears to have one.
Jeremy, is there any evidence of a 'cartouche', [J.S.A.- in fancy script with date], on your stock? Remnants of a 'cartouche' would be located on the left-side of the stock wrist near the 'magazine cut-off switch'?
Armory & arsenal refurbished carbines, that were updated (to model 1899 configuration) with new stocks, will likely have a "Circled script P"- (proof mark) behind the trigger-guard, but lack any evidence of ever having an 'acceptance cartouche'.
Re: New Krag Carbine
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:20 pm
by psteinmayer
It's always a good idea to stuff a few patches in after the oiler and rods. Cushions the rods and keeps them from rattling against the trap door!
Re: New Krag Carbine
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:35 pm
by tke466
butlersrangers wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:17 am
The rods & oiler install like this, though technically, carbines were just equipped with two rod sections. (A folded-up cleaning patch will keep things quiet):
[BTW - There is no doubt in my mind that Jeremy's carbine, #127650, was built as a U.S. model 1898 carbine, saw service in harsh tropical climates, and was officially reconditioned and updated with a model 1899 carbine stock, handguard, barrel-band and sights. All his parts appear to be legitimate carbine parts].
It is neat that the bore survives in excellent condition!
Springfield Armory used something on the scale of 30,000 Italian walnut rifle and carbine stock blanks, during the period 1899 to 1902. This carbine appears to have one.
Jeremy, is there any evidence of a 'cartouche', [J.S.A.- in fancy script with date], on your stock? Remnants of a 'cartouche' would be located on the left-side of the stock wrist near the 'magazine cut-off switch'?
Armory & arsenal refurbished carbines, that were updated (to model 1899 configuration) with new stocks, will likely have a "Circled script P"- (proof mark) behind the trigger-guard, but lack any evidence of ever having an 'acceptance cartouche'.
Butlersrangers: Yes. 1901 dated. It appears I missed that picture. Here it is. Yes serif P on the wrist. There is another mark near the trigger guard (between the serif P) but I can't quite make it out. I think it is a "T".
Re: New Krag Carbine
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 5:55 am
by butlersrangers
Most Krag stocks have small initials or numerals between the rear of the trigger-guard and the circled "P". These are thought to have once identified a Stocker or Sub-Inspector.
Your [J.S.A. - 1901] 'acceptance cartouche' would suggest that this stock initially was on a model 1899 carbine.
The 3rd block of about 2,200 model 1899 carbines were built and accepted in 1901.
I imagine, it is possible the stock was stripped, reconditioned, and reused during a later rebuilding of a batch of carbines.
The "J.S.A." Initials are for Joseph Sumner Adams, Assistant-Foreman of the Springfield Armory Assembly Room.