Strange Krag and M1903 Stock Modifications

[Mark21]

Strange M1903 and krag stocks. I came across the M1903 stock about 5 years ago. Thinking that someone made the modification to the stock for some sort of attachment. I could not find anything on this modification. So, I simply chalked it up to a personnel modification.

So last week I but a Krag M1898. Not seeing a lot from the initial pictures, I buy it. After getting it home and take it apart to inspect it. I find the same modification to the Krag as the M1903. But the Krag has a few more stock modifications. The channel in the receiver cutout area and the milling of the trigger guard area. There is a small notch on the side with a wear mark just above the notch on the left. And the barrel is threaded with a screw cover for the threads.

Now one stock (M1903) with a modification is one thing, but two and being different rifles having almost the same cutouts on the right side and the same distance apart now raises questions.

The milling in the barrel channel of both stock is also very similar.

Two different rifles used as test beds for the same fixture?

Threaded Krag rifle barrel?

Krag
https://i.imgur.com/3IRhYcwm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FytbqUqm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PyrkyWpm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/MgFbeKHm.jpg


M1903
https://i.imgur.com/sJmyr72m.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/lywHH13m.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Uj7aTpYm.jpg

[butlersrangers]

Mark21 - I believe you have a model 1892 Krag stock and a model 1903 Springfield stock, both commercially modified,
for use on the Cummings Sub-Target Gun Machine.
The Cummings apparatus was a shooting simulator, that worked on the principle of the pantagraph.
A needle assembly floated and moved in alignment with a modified rifle.
When the rifle was 'dry-fired', the needle pierced a miniature target located on the machine. A tight group of pinpricks reflected consistent sight picture and trigger control.
Rifles were modified by soldering a heavy brass fixture on the right-side of the barrel. Stock wood was removed to clear the fixture attachment.

Most U.S. Cummings units used a mechanical/cable linkage operated by the trigger and striker.
It appears your Krag stock had a groove and holes for electric wires.
A switch was likely actuated by trigger movement, which energized a solenoid, that moved the piercing needle. This system was used by the British on Sub-Target Machines made by Wilkinson, under license.

I have a model 1898 Krag stock with the same 'cuts' for the Cummings fixture.

[butlersrangers]

The channels in your stocks are the normal cuts to lighten the stocks.
It is the gouged-out wood and two openings in the right-side of the stock that accommodate the Cummings fixture.

I believe your Krag stock has patches inserted into the side openings?

The electric wire holes are a new twist for me!

[P0H0]

This is pretty neat — is there other photos or modern videos of a restored machine in use — i take it that it punches holes in a paper target?

[Mark21]

Thank you, all, for your help. The Krag stock is a M1898. It has the squared cut out for the bolt not the rounded as found on 1892 to 1986 Krags. Yes the Krag stock has fillers on the right side.

[butlersrangers]

Mark21 - I mistook a 'spot' on your Krag stock for a metal insert, found on model 1892 stocks.
Thank you for clarifying that your stock is a model 1898 Krag stock and that 'patches' are now filling the 'cut-outs',
(that were done to accommodate the fixture for the Cummings Sub-Target Machine).

POHO - I am not aware of any surviving Cummings or Wilkinson Sub-Target Gun Machine. (Maybe, somewhere in the world, one or more exist)?

With hundreds made and distributed all over the world, I have a hunch that bits and pieces survive, and likely are not identified for what they are!
One could easily be misidentified as a piece of old industrial machinery and packed away in a closet or basement somewhere, totally unappreciated.

New York Public Schools had 10 or 12 by WW1. The Michigan National Guard had one purchased by the company at Sault Saint Marie.
West Point and Annapolis had them for cadets. Some Private Military Schools in the U.S.A., Canada, and Great Britain bought them.
The Royal Navy bought a whole bunch of the Wilkinson sub-target machines and used them for rifle training on ships and at bases.

There were variations of the machine. The Boston made ones were usually mechanically actuated (linkages and cable). The Wilkinson made ones used an electric switch, wires, a dry cell battery,
and a target holder-frame that was quickly drawn into the needle-mechanism by electric solenoid or magnet.

The small cardboard or paper 'sub-target' was held in a frame on the machine and was quickly moved into the 'floating' needle, when the rig was 'dry fired'.

These Cummings Sub-Target Machines cost $400 to $500 in the 1903 to 1918 era. It could be fitted to any bolt-action Service Rifle: Mauser, Moisin, Lee-Enfield, Krag, 1903 Springfield.
(Cheaper and simpler "Dotter" devices and .22 caliber rifle training were likely 'the death knell' to the complex and expensive Cummings machine).

IMO - Nowadays, the pistol "Laser Dry-Fire Target-Systems" would be a great boon, if adapted for practice with old service rifles!

I do sincerely hope that an astute gun enthusiast, someday, spots one of these old training 'dinosaurs' and plays a role in restoring it to function and display.
(I bet Smithsonian is probably hiding one)!

Note - Some of my attached graphics and photos show adapted Krags and some show adapted (long) Lee-Enfields.


Search: https://rifleman.org.uk/Sub-target_devices.html for some really good content.

"N.R.A. (UK) - Historic Arms Research Center"

[butlersrangers]

The U.K. Riflemen have preserved some wonderful shared shooting heritage!

This "Scientific American" 1903 article shows a likely 'captured' Spanish Mauser on a Cummings machine,
also, an American Krag rifleman 'practicing' with a Krag carbine on a Cummings Machine, displayed at Sea Girt, N.J. - Maybe at the 1903 National Matches?

[Mark21]

From the pictures there were several different rifles used on the machine. Now all I need to do is locate one.

[butlersrangers]

Mark21 - Would it be possible to post a detailed photo of the threaded area of your Krag's barrel, mentioned in your original post?

Does the exterior of your Krag barrel show any evidence of ever having a Cumming's "Rigid Attaching Bracket" soldered to its right-side and bottom?

Years ago, I bought a model 1898 Krag off GunBroker with a stock and handguard altered for the Cummings Bracket.
The Krag's metal, however, had no signs of having been used or adapted for a Cumming's Sub-Target Gun Machine.
Somebody simply reused the 'altered' wood. (I kept the 'altered' stock and traded-off the metal).

About a year ago, a Michigan Gun Collector friend, Paul Breakey, displayed a (long) Magazine Lee-Enfield,
that had been altered for use on a Wilkinson made (Cummings) Sub-Target Gun Machine.

Paul had been misguided and was told the "bracket" and rifle was for attachment to an artillery piece.
I was able to correctly identify, what he had, and provide him with documentation.
He kindly let me photograph the "Attaching Bracket" and gave permission to post pictures on the KCA Forum.
To date, this is the only Cummings Bracket that I have seen and handled.

H. H. Cummings had over 100 U. S. Patents. There appear to have been numerous changes and variations of his Sub-Target Gun machines.
Many differences are observable, when studying his patent drawings and actual photographs of Sub-Target Machines.
Patent drawings for #0739778 (granted September 22, 1903) and #0920029 (applied July 23, 1904 and granted April 27, 1909),
show dry batteries, wires, and electromagnets. U.S. photographs generally show cables and linkages.

Attachments: 1903 Patent Drawing shows Mauser action with 'electric-switch' trigger, KCA Member's Krag barrel with evidence of previous 'bracket' attachment, Cummings 'bracket' on P. Breakey's Magazine Lee-Enfield, and period photo of Model 1893 Spanish Mauser on a Cummings Sub-Target Machine.

[butlersrangers]

A Magazine Lee-Enfield rifle, modified to attach to a Wilkinson Sub-Target Gun Machine, (that was made under license with Cummings).

The formidable 'attaching bracket' is nickel-plated bronze.

The "Adjust Here" hole allowed adjustment off the trigger/electric switch mechanism.