Decent into Madness - Lack of Case Trimming

[madsenshooter]

A slightly smaller expander ball will take away the need for crimping, especially with a bullet that does not go below the neck/shoulder junction. I have a few different size expanders since I shoot various sized cast bullets. I've got some really good groups with cases that were a few thousandths too long and therefore into the beginning of the throat a wee bit. Not really the throat, there's actually a bit of a cone .065" long ahead of the case mouth. It starts at 2.322" and tapers from .3384" diameter down to .3108". Then the throat starts. Chambers vary some I think I'm looking at a Winchester drawing but it is on the SAAMI page. When I made some 30-40 out of .303 blanks, the mouth's of max length cases got a little mark that almost looked like a crimp from that cone. That's a later Krag barrel with tighter chamber dimensions.

[Whig]

Good point. I have numerous size expander balls for some of my dies. Krags are well known for having different bore sizes. Some shoot better with .308 diameter bullets and some do better with .310. If you expand for a .310 bullet and try to seat a .308 bullet in that case, it slips down before seating. But, I watch the case mouth size for seating the bullet to prevent this and still do put a slight crimp on my .30-40 loads using the Lee Precision crimping die. I don't want to risk having any of my reload bullets getting pushed too deep in the case with handling or feeding issues.

[Olpeddler]

Hello Paul, I have a couple of questions pertaining to your 2 posts on this string:

First, in regard to .30-06 reloading, I, too, f/l resize, trim, and chamfour, each case every time I reload it. I used to neck size reloads for my four bolt action .30-06 rifles, but I found that neck sizing did not noticeably increase bench rest, 100 yd. shooting accuracy, so I reverted back to f/l sizing. Since acquiring my .30-40 Model 1899 Krag, I have used the same f/l re-loading case prep. process that I use with .30-06. Frequently, each time I trim a batch of .30-40 cases, I get brass trimmings. I am curious as to why you only occasionally trim your Krag brass.
Secondly, when reloading for any center-fire rifle calibers, do you use a COL that enables the bullet to engage the rifling, or do you do that only for .30-40 Krag cartridges? I have only one Krag rifle and reload Hornady 220 gr. RN, and both Hornady 180 gr. RN and spitzer bullets. In order to have those 3 bullets touch the rifling, will I need to establish specific COL's for each bullet?

Thanks for your advice and perspectives.

[butlersrangers]

'Olpeddler' - FWIW, many Krag shooter's set the O.A.L. of their .30-40 re-loads to the maximum length, that will feed through the Krag magazine.
This gives adequate case-neck 'grip & tension' for most bullets weighing 150 grains and heavier.

Most original U.S. Krag barrels have a lot of Lede & 'free bore'.
Seating a bullet in a .30-40 case, out to the point where it contacts the rifling, may make for a very long cartridge.
This can turn your magazine rifle into a 'load the chamber directly' single shot.

I reckon, you already know this.

BTW - Much of the reason for 'neck-sizing only' .30-40 Brass is to increase case life.
(I usually resize my .30-40 Brass using a Lee Collet Sizing-Die, for 7.5mm Swiss.
This re-sizes about 2/3rds of the Krag case-neck, leaves the case body and shoulder alone, and causes no case stretch.
Amazingly, .30-40 Brass given this treatment, chambers readily in most of my Krag rifles and carbines.

[Dick Hosmer]

Will .303 brass reach Krag dimensions before it's no good?

[butlersrangers]

Dick, I don't believe that much stretch would occur, if reasonable loads were used, the cases remained 'fireformed' to a Krag's chamber, and the cases were simply neck-sized after firing.
A slight amount of case-mouth trimming would be advisable, just to 'square-up' case mouths and make the batch of .303, now .30 caliber Brass, consistent in length.

Variations in technique, Die dimensions and expander-ball diameters could give harsher treatment to Brass.
This can increase case stretching and result in faster thinning of the case body in the 'web' area.

FWIW - This is largely theoretical and opinion.
Fortunately, I have not had to resort to fashioning Krag Brass from .303 British.

[psteinmayer]

Olpeddler, I rarely trim my 30-40 brass because with neck-sizing only, I've never reached the point where I have a problem. I also occasionally anneal my necks. Now some of my brass is well into double digit reloads (I'd venture to guess some of it more than 25 loads - some of my R-P brass dates back to the early 1980s). I do get the occasional crack in the case neck, which can happen... but I have never in almost 40 years of Krag shooting had a separation or crack below the neck!

I set my OAL so my bullets touch the rifling, which is easy with the Hornady 220 RN. This would not be possible with a lighter spitzer bullet unless they were seated out so long that feeding issues would come into play. Yes, you would need to establish a different OAL for each bullet as needed. I DO try to be as close as possible with other calibers too... again, as long as there are no feed issues. As I stated earlier in this thread... this became a huge problem in my K31 - with rounds seated out a hair too far, the bolt wouldn't go into battery and the rifle wouldn't fire. I don't see that happening with a Krag - as long as the bolt will close, she WILL drop the firing pin! In some rifles, OAL is liimited by clip or magazine space regardless of the depth of the throat. Take the Garand Rifle - A HAIR too long and they won't even fit in the magwell!!!

[Dick Hosmer]

Dick, I don't believe that much stretch would occur, if reasonable loads were used, the cases remained 'fireformed' to a Krag's chamber, and the cases were simply neck-sized after firing.
A slight amount of case-mouth trimming would be advisable, just to 'square-up' case mouths and make the batch of .303, now .30 caliber Brass, consistent in length.

Variations in technique, Die dimensions and expander-ball diameters could give harsher treatment to Brass.
This can increase case stretching and result in faster thinning of the case body in the 'web' area.

FWIW - This is largely theoretical and opinion.
Fortunately, I have not had to resort to fashioning Krag Brass from .303 British.

Nor have I, but I do have some, and was just wondering - recently inherited a SMLE which I intend to shoot.

[Olpeddler]

Paul Steinmayer & Butlersrangers, A belated "Thank You" to you both for your responses to my 8/23/2023 post on the the need for neck sizing and case trimming when reloading .30-40 Krag brass. Based on both your comments, I will begin neck sizing my .30-40 reloads. This probably is a dumb question, but I have a Lee .30-06 neck sizing dye, and would that work for neck sizing .30-40 Krag brass? Thanks again, as you both have become my reloading 'Coaches' since I acguired my Model 1899 Krag carbine 4 years ago. Pat Collins

[butlersrangers]

If you have a .308 Winchester FL Resizing Die, it can be adjusted (backed-off in the press) to just size as much of the .30-40 case-neck as you desire and not touch the case body.

I use a Lee Collet Die for the 7.5X55mm Swiss cartridge. It resizes about 2/3rds of the case-neck and does not touch the neck or the case body.

It appears a .30-06 Die could also be adjusted and used to partially size the neck of a .30-40 case.