It's not a Fake

[Cat Man]

In the collecting world we sure see our share of "Fake" items. Modified Krag rifles into "Carbines", Reproductions of field equipment made to look old,
knockoff ladies name brand designer hand bags, reproduction vintage car parts and on and on.

While I was re-reading some old reports from Springfield about the 45-70 in the 1880's, I notes that Lt Col. Buffington wrote of his concerns over civilian companies
that were assembling look alike Springfield guns from surplus and not standard reproduction parts.
He referred to these not as "Fakes" but as "Fraudulent Imitations". That is a great term!

I stay away from the loose 1960's firearms term Sporterized, and prefer to think of them as Modified military arms.
The next time someone tries to intentionally sell me a suspicious non original firearm I'm going to remember the proper 1880's military term "Fraudulent Imitation".

Jeff
The Caterpillar Man

[MooseNugget]

I’m okay with the term sporterized because I understand what it implies.

What I love about the KCA is that we try to educate folks before they fall victims to unscrupulous individuals who intentionally try to deceive or sell fraudulent imitations.

BTW: I was selling an original 1899 Krag carbine, at a local gun show, and I had many folks come to table and ask “Is it sporterized?”

[butlersrangers]

I'm good with 'sporterized', because it was such a common term in gun magazines and among collectors, in the 1950s and 1960s,
when I was educating myself about guns.

Nowadays, I will often say "altered by a civilian for hunting", but, that is mighty wordy.

I do it because some KCA members, who I highly respect, hate hearing the term 'sporterized' and make good arguments against its use.
'Spell Check' doesn't like it either.

It does slip out of my mouth, often, because it is widely understood 'shorthand'.

[Culpeper]

Sporterized is the term I use up at the Home when I argue with the old geezers but I use it in the context of a gun that it is readily apparent someone put after market parts on it. I use fake when someone is trying to foist an otherwise correct Krag off on me. My two instances were ultra high number rifle receivers in carbine dress. It worked out for me. I managed to pick up two carbine stocks and one hand guard.

However I do believe I will start using Colonel Buffington's term of fraudulent imitations to describe guns with cut down barrels and hacked up stocks. It is old school. Like that time me and John Pershing were charging up Little Round Top leading three companies of Hessians during the War of 1812.

[waterman]

To me, there are a lot of variants of Krags, and a Krag in each of the various categories has something (or maybe nothing) to recommend it. In the 1920s, "the government" dumped more than 300 million Krags on the civilian market. A lot of variants have cropped up over the last century. Here are a few:
(a) Krags in their original military condition, ranging from brand new to really beat up.
(b) Krags restored to some semblance of their original condition. Are these "fakes"?
(c) real Philippine Constabulary Krags, few & far between.
(d) Krags converted to Philippine Constabulary configuration. If you made one because you wanted one, are you a faker?
(e) What about "school rifles"? Are they fakes?
(f) What about Benecia Carbines, with or without paperwork? Could the paperwork be faked?
(g) Krags used as parade rifles, etc., by VFW or American Legion posts. Original, cut down, or chrome-plated, stocks painted with white enamel. Fakes?
(h) Krags minimally altered to be more useful as hunting rifles. Barrel shortened, stock cut down. Some done nicely, some done by bubba. They may make you want to weep, but there is nothing fake about them.
(i) Krags with Stevens-Pope barrels, in .22 rimfire or in .30/40, with sights made for target shooting. Are they fakes if fitted by National Guard or Army Marksmanship units? Fakes if put together by present possessors?
(j) Krags converted to hunting rifles by shortening barrels and by fitting non-military stocks. Some were done by Bannerman or Sedgely, but some by firms like Griffin & Howe.
(l) Krags converted to other calibers, often fitted with classy hand made stocks. Some are .30/30 or .25/35. Some are Hornets, Bees or Zippers. I saw two I really admired, one in .35 Winchester ("would shoot thru an elephant sideways" the woman who owned it said) and one in .405 Winchester. Both required extensive magazine modifications. Mike Petrov & friends really liked rifles like these.
If you are a "military only purist", I think you are missing out.

[Culpeper]

more than 300 million Krags on the civilian market

WOW!

Maybe 300 thousand?

[Dick Hosmer]

I guess my BoOF rifle with restored stock, otherwise genuine, would be a (b) in your system? It's not "right", but I think calling it a "fake" might be a little harsh.

[waterman]

To me, there are a lot of variants of Krags, and a Krag in each of the various categories has something (or maybe nothing) to recommend it. In the 1920s, "the government" dumped more than 300 million Krags on the civilian market. A lot of variants have cropped up over the last century. Here are a few:
(a) Krags in their original military condition, ranging from brand new to really beat up.
(b) Krags restored to some semblance of their original condition. Are these "fakes"?
(c) real Philippine Constabulary Krags, few & far between.
(d) Krags converted to Philippine Constabulary configuration. If you made one because you wanted one, are you a faker?
(e) What about "school rifles"? Are they fakes?
(f) What about Benecia Carbines, with or without paperwork? Could the paperwork be faked?
(g) Krags used as parade rifles, etc., by VFW or American Legion posts. Original, cut down, or chrome-plated, stocks painted with white enamel. Fakes?
(h) Krags minimally altered to be more useful as hunting rifles. Barrel shortened, stock cut down. Some done nicely, some done by bubba. They may make you want to weep, but there is nothing fake about them.
(i) Krags with Stevens-Pope barrels, in .22 rimfire or in .30/40, with sights made for target shooting. Are they fakes if fitted by National Guard or Army Marksmanship units? Fakes if put together by present possessors?
(j) Krags converted to hunting rifles by shortening barrels and by fitting non-military stocks. Some were done by Bannerman or Sedgely, but some by firms like Griffin & Howe.
(l) Krags converted to other calibers, often fitted with classy hand made stocks. Some are .30/30 or .25/35. Some are Hornets, Bees or Zippers. I saw two I really admired, one in .35 Winchester ("would shoot thru an elephant sideways" the woman who owned it said) and one in .405 Winchester. Both required extensive magazine modifications. Mike Petrov & friends really liked rifles like these.
If you are a "military only purist", I think you are missing out.

My apologies. I originally wrote "a quarter of a million" Krags. Then thought the number was about 300,000. Failed to make the change properly. Note to self! Proof reading is necessary!! Probably 300,000 went to civilian markets. We can only wish for millions of Krags to magically appear.

[Hunza]

after as many years the Krag has in it's history, i think the sporterized krags of yester year have become a class of themselves.

[RickyG]

I think fake and sported are two different animals. A fake is when someone is trying to pass it off as genuine. Sported is obviously modified for personal taste or a specific purpose and not intended to trick someone