.22 cal target Krag

[Bill Rogers]

I phrased the question incorrectly. I was referring to the .22 caliber target/practice Krags. I have seen some photos but have never had my hands on one at a show or auction and I don't see them for sale on places like GB. Just curious if you guys had one and even if not what would be the approximate value?

[waterman]

More than a decade ago, I had the opportunity to use a Model 1898 Gallery Practice Rifle for a season in a smallbore prone league, iron sights only. We shot at 50 yards, 50 meters, and 100 yards, using scaled down versions of the NRA 100-yard smallbore target.

The rifle had an excellent bore & chamber and a pretty good trigger pull. It had been given an entirely new stock, a marvel of woodworking. The rear sight was a no-drill Redfield, front was a Lyman 17A fitted onto some sort of barrel band. Looked & felt to be a dandy target rifle.

But the rifle was chambered for the .22 Extra Long Rimfire cartridge. The rifling had a 1 in 18" twist, and IIRC, the groove diameter was .226 or maybe a bit more. With target grade .22 LR ammo, the rifle was hopeless, would only keep its shots in the 8-ring and the matches were won with the X-ring count. I tried reforming bullets in loaded cartridges with two types of dies, one a Paco die, and the other (much better) a Waltz die. Both brought bullet diameter up to .226, but very little improvement in accuracy. Then I bought some of the ultra high velocity stuff, CCI Stingers, etc. It shot those pretty well, but still did not have match accuracy. With luck, I could hit the 10-ring. Some one put a lot of skilled work and TLC into a rifle that was a lemon from Day 1.

Also, the trip pin destroyed all of the slickness we admire in our Real Krags. Both thumbs down.

[Dick Hosmer]

I phrased the question incorrectly. I was referring to the .22 caliber target/practice Krags. I have seen some photos but have never had my hands on one at a show or auction and I don't see them for sale on places like GB. Just curious if you guys had one and even if not what would be the approximate value?

I own one of the SA-made (not the Pope-barreled variants) rifles with the extractor-plate. It is listed in Mallory's Krag book. I paid $3,000 for it, about 15 years ago. I believe that is still pretty much the going rate. I have not shot it, but do plan to "some day". I'd better get to it, my "some days" definitely have a shelf life.

[waterman]

Dick, I would greatly appreciate if you would measure the twist of the rifling and the diameter of the grooves. I read somewhere that the first rifles were chambered for .22 Extra Long, but after 50 or so were made, the remainder were chambered for .22 Long Rifle cartridges, with conventional twist and bore & groove diameters.

[Bill Rogers]

I responded, I thought, but it looks like it was lost or I put it somewhere else perhaps the wrong forum topic. I believe I misrepresented the question. I am referring to the .22 caliber Krags that were used for target practice and training. I have no other intel only what I have found on the web. I have never laid eyes or hands on one and would love to. I keep finding different numbers as to how many were actually made or reconfigured. Since I am such a Kragger I'd love to see one and maybe add it to my collection.

[Dick Hosmer]

Dick, I would greatly appreciate if you would measure the twist of the rifling and the diameter of the grooves. I read somewhere that the first rifles were chambered for .22 Extra Long, but after 50 or so were made, the remainder were chambered for .22 Long Rifle cartridges, with conventional twist and bore & groove diameters.

Sorry, just saw this today. I will try, maybe some time this winter, but have never done it, and have a LOT on my plate - health and caregiver-wise. Bug me in six months if I've not responded.

[waterman]

If a real Krag lover encounters one of the Model 1898 Gallery Practice Rifles, he or she will say naughty words, might have to employ Ivory mouthwash.

[butlersrangers]

I believe 'Waterman' is saying that the Ordnance Department and Springfield Armory turned a smooth operating .30 caliber rifle into a .22 caliber Royal Cluster F***!

Private industry, through Stevens-Pope, had devised a convenient way to 'temporarily alter' a standard Krag into a .22 caliber single-shot practice rifle.
The Pope barreled .22 rifles could be returned to their previous state, by simply re-installing the .30 caliber barrel.
The Ordnance Department put a halt to this practical conversion.

The Springfield Armory approach, which the Ordnance Department authorized, created an expensive 'new manufacture' .22 caliber Krag Gallery Practice (GP) single-shot rifle.
The GP action was never part of a .30 caliber rifle and had 'adaptations' that prevented it becoming one.
Loading a .22 caliber cartridge was clumsy and the 'Rube Goldberg' extraction system was prone to parts breakage & failure.
The receiver's special 'trip-pin', which engaged the Krag extractor, rendered the Krag action sticky and sluggish.

IMO - The 'Savage-Pope' altered Krags and the SA made GP .22 caliber rifles were made at an awkward time.
.22 caliber rimfire cartridges had been around since the Civil War. The .22 rimfire was in a state of flux.

The .22 caliber Short, Long and Long Rifle cartridges, that we use and grew-up with, came after these rifles.
The "Krag .22s" were made for and had a diet of corrosive ammunition with varying diameters of (.22 caliber) bullets.

After WW1, U.S. .22 caliber rifles and ammunition would be vastly improved. Our expectations are high for .22 caliber accuracy.
There was a lot of 'evolution' to get to this point.

[Dick Hosmer]

Mine has, I think, one of the two springs broken, so operates quite roughly. One of those (too many) things I was always going to fix, but never got around to doing it. I have a large vise and the beginnings of an action wrench, so maybe there is hope, but it won't be soon. S&S thought they had some springs, then said they couldn't find them - that didn't help matters. Ace here I come, if not them, there's always McMaster-Carr.

[Cat Man]

In addition to collecting Krags, my interests run to military marksmanship, vintage match shooting and .22 Cal military training rifles.
I often shoot several Krag .22 training rifles and would NOT say they are any sort of POS, My experience has found them to be well made and a pleasure to shoot.
And ammo is cheap and plentiful compared to .30 Cal service cartridges. That was the whole idea.

For those who are not familiar with the arsenal manufactured Krag .22 gallery practice rifle, here are the rifle's detail features including the aux chamber and extractor that we are discussing.

A true Gallery model has a relief cut on the receiver to improve hand loading. The standard receiver with a Stevens Pope barrel lacks this and make inserting the small cartridge more challenging.
Big fingers holding small cartridges.

While not a rapid-fire service piece, when parts are complete and in alignment, they work very well. Accuracy will not match modern match rifles, but good for their day.

Jeff the Caterpillar Man