Request for help with markings

[Culpeper]

First, I am not a US bayonet expert though I have an assortment of them, from the Krag and early M1903 era, that includes a real and a fake 1902 Bolo.

Do you have a link for more pictures of this thing? The lighting is in the wrong angles for my liking. Plus we do not have a picture of the mouth of the scabbard nor top down or bottom up "edge" views of the bayonet itself. We only see the side view.

Without laying hands on it, I would have to guess this thing was welded up from the hand grip of a M1905 bayonet and a Mle. 1886/15 Lebel cruciform bayonet.

Go to the bottom to the France section

https://www.ebayonet.com/bayonetsa_f.htm
https://ebayonet.com/16100/16173.jpg
https://ebayonet.com/16800/16898.jpg

Again. I am only guessing here. You would have to check for a weld in front of the hand guard.

http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/bayonet_points.htm

Otto has a 1898 Krag bayonet if that is what you are wanting.

17633 M1892 Krag bayonet with scabbard. 1898

https://ebayonet.com/17600/17633.jpg
https://ebayonet.com/17600/17633a.jpg
https://ebayonet.com/17600/17633b.jpg
https://ebayonet.com/17600/17633c.jpg

$125

[Culpeper]

Eric, I keep forgetting you are part of the KCA Foreign Legion, Department of France, so my guess is likely a correct guess.



Eric, Je n'arrête pas d'oublier que vous faites partie de la Légion étrangère KCA, Département de France, donc ma supposition est probablement correcte.

[butlersrangers]

I disagree, somewhat, the blade of the bayonet in question, although showing a 'cruciform' profile, is different from the Lebel/Berthier bayonet blade.

Eric has presented us with a very interesting bayonet. The blade contour appears to be much like the bayonet shown in Hartman's book, on page 238.
A Springfield Armory bayonet that was created in 1905, for possible adoption, to replace the rod-bayonet of the early 1903 Springfield rifle.

I am suspicious of this bayonet and think it is a fraud, but, I cannot figure out the origin of the rather distinctive blade?

The 'flat' area, that separates the blade 'flutes', is wider on this bayonet blade, than the bayonet that Hartman pictured.
(German Hunting Sword blade for wild boar)?

The cross-guard does not appear to be 'squarely' mounted on the blade and grip.

The scabbard has a 'button' to hold it in place in a leather 'frog' or carrier. (This is not like American or French Lebel/Berthier scabbards).

There is obvious bronze brazing on the rear of the cross-guard, at the juncture with the grip.
The front edge of the wood grips are crudely beveled and fit poorly, near the cross-guard.
There may be an unusual emblem or marking on the right 'flat' a bit in front of the guard?

I believe a Krag grip & cross-guard has been brazed to a rather interesting and unknown blade.

It is a fake of an ultra rare U.S. bayonet, in my opinion.

[butlersrangers]

Does any member have a copy of "The American Bayonet", by Hardin?

Item number 48, on page 60, appears to be the source of the photo, that Hartman used in his book.
Hardin may have supplied more details on the rare 1903 Springfield bayonet with the Krag grip.

(Note the proper & neatly fitted Krag grip panels, in the photo that Hartman used).

[Culpeper]

I retract my statement about it being a M1905 donor. I was going on memory after hitting some after dinner adult beverages. It is a Krag handle with domed rivets.

Perhaps the answer is with the scabbard. Figure out the scabbard and bayonet will be found.

It appears to be all metal which rules out leather and metal like the American Mosins and other Springfield types. Hmm. Is it all metal?

[eric38]

Hello ,
thank you for your answers , the sale ends in an hour and that the starting amount and 250 euros , I find it a little high for a scam.
Namely that everything is steel and this morning I searched in my bayonets because I wanted to control something :

Capture d’écran 2024-01-25 140214.png (709.53 KiB) Viewed 1909 times

Capture d’écran 2024-01-25 140508.png (534.51 KiB) Viewed 1909 times

I knew I'd seen this type of blade but hadn't made the connection.
Seeing this, I don't know what to do

SCHEME OR NOT ???

Eric .

[MooseNugget]

The blade seems to be very similar to the Belgium M1916-35 sword bayonet.

Below is a link to Worldbayonets.com which is an excellent source for bayonet information:

https://worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Ident ... ium_2.html

[butlersrangers]

That's the source of the blade that was attached to the Krag handle parts. FAKE!

Thanks 'MooseNugget', you are a good detective!

A desirable WW1 Belgian Mauser 'ersatz' bayonet and a Krag bayonet were sacrificed to make a fake 1903 Springfield rifle 'prototype' bayonet.