identifying an arsenal cut down carbine vs. sportorized

[La Riviere Du Plain]

Is there a way to tell if a carbine without a saddlering and the kind of barrel band that guards the front sight, on it? I don't own any krags but I have become somewhat obsessed.

[La Riviere Du Plain]

I have a brophy book that is out for delivery today. Interesting note on the brophy book, it when through springfield Massachusetts regional facility on the way here!

[MooseNugget]

Hello LRDP and welcome,

First off, I would encourage you to read the many previous posts that may have answers concerning your question.

I’ll begin the discussion and I’m sure some of our more knowledgeable KCA members will chime in:

- Measure the barrel using a rod placed in the bore and pushed all the way to the bolt face…should be 22 inches
- Look at the muzzle crown…should be rounded not flat or with cut marks
- All Model 1899’s are carbines
- Look up or ask someone to research the serial number to determine manufacture info
- Original carbine rear sights will usually have a “C” or “C’s” stamped on them along with yardage marking differences
- Original carbine front sights will have a “C” stamped on them
- Original carbines (as issued) will have stocks and hand guards associated with the model year…otherwise, you’ll have a mixture of stocks/hand guards due to arsenal upgrades and rear sight changes

I’m sure I missed somethings but it’s pretty taxing for these old hands and eyes to post replies from my little cell phone

BTW: Your book will be very helpful

[Whig]

Welcome La Riviere to KCA! If you are obsessed with Krags, like many of us, you are certainly in the right place. We can help you spend your money wisely on Krags whether rifles or carbines.

There are many, many details to Krag collecting and differentiating between rifles and carbines. The details can be so over whelming that you can easily make bad decisions without some assistance. Studying Krags with the good references out there is very important but the best way to learn is to actually get one or two yourself and have hands on experience.

Many Krags were bought and sporterized mainly for hunting purposes. The longer rifle barrel were often cut down to make them easier to carry while hunting in the woods. Many Krags had scope mounts affixed to the receiver by having holes drilled and tapped for the mount which ruins the receiver. Any damage, sporterizing or other "Bubba" work done on one of these treasures destroys the military collector value. Refinishing was commonly done at the arsenal when they came back in to be fixed or upgraded. Bad refinishing damages value also.

Moose gave you some good details to look for. There are some additional points that need to be made in addition to what he said. The carbine barrel was always exactly 22 inches long. Not 22 1/4 inch or otherwise. The front sights were always brazed into a dovetail cut by Springfield Armory. Any banded front sight is wrong. All 1899 marked receivers began life as Model 1899 Krag carbines. These may have also been altered or damaged and not worth investing in. Barrels may have been changed from a Krag rifle receiver originally. You need to take the stock off and examine the metal for vise or wrench marks from removing and changing the barrel. Original carbine rear sights were all marked in some way with a "c" for carbine but you need to know what and where to look. There have been fake carbine rear sights made because many are valuable. The front blade is often marked with a "c" for the carbines but many have to be removed from the front sight base to see that mark. Many carbines were made without the saddle ring and some had arsenal stock replacements that do not have the saddle ring anymore. Cartouches on the left side of the stock were present on all original stocks from Springfield Armory but replacement stocks did not have the cartouche.

I could go on and on. You get the idea. Post pictures of any Krags you might be considering buying and we'll do our best to evaluate the Krag and give advice and relative value. Lots of good pictures are helpful.

Welcome again and jump onboard the Krag Train!!! Choo! Choo!!!

[butlersrangers]

Welcome!
Original Krag carbine identification pretty much starts with a 22" barrel with proper crown and front-sight base.
Next, the receiver should be in a serial number range of known carbines or a model 1899 receiver.

Lots of Krag 'parts guns' exist that were never carbines, but, some civilian put together, incorporating an isolated carbine part or parts.
This may have been an innocent expedient or a conscious effort to cheat and deceive.

[La Riviere Du Plain]

I did get my brophy book today. Thanks for the replies. Learned about this formmum from the mosin nagant forum. Who do I private message with a SN of a 1896 that is on an auction?

[Whig]

Most of us can help openly. If you want to send me a private message, feel free. I'll help if I can.