Short(er) ammo?

[Ed Green]

Hi,

Back in the 70s my dad converted a Krag to a 2+1 shot sporting rifle. He found an old American Rifleman series of articles about how to cut off the side magazine box and replace it with a flush metal plate. With the spring in there, that left room for 2 rounds in the magazine (plus one in the chamber).

But those 2 rounds have to be loaded from the top; I don't think the Krag was ever designed for that -- it was made to load either single rounds at a time straight into the chamber, or to feed from the box magazine, which was loaded through the door on the right side.

I bought a box of my standard hunting rounds -- Remington Core-lokt (the pointy ones) -- and they seem about 1/16th too long. After a half hour of fiddling and cursing, I managed to coax 2 rounds into the magazine (at the cost of feeling in my fingertips for two days). This can't be right.

Is there another brand of good .30-40 ammo that is shorter? I see at least Hornady and Winchester make it. Has anyone tried loading a Krag magazine from the top? Any tips or ideas?

Thanks!
Ed Green

[Dick Hosmer]

THat's odd - most (all?) of the old AR articles I recall provided for a hinged cover of some sort, to avoid the problem you have encountered.

A flash thought - are you fighting the cut-off as well as the spring? You could even remove it entirely. Modern sporting rifles don't use one.

Also, could the spring be lightened by thinning it? It no longer has to do double-duty in keepeing the door closed.

What about handloading? I'd suspect the manufacturers all work to the same OAL.

[butlersrangers]

Ed Green - Welcome to the KCA Forum.

Over the years, there were several methods devised to make the military Krag into a thinner action for sporting use.

One method was to remove the Magazine Gate & Follower Arm, remove part of the right-side of the Receiver, and cover the new opening with a hinged Flat Door with a substitute Follower Spring. A clever Catch was required to hold the door closed.

A different approach was to dispense with the 'Door' entirely. The Door was replace with a Fixed Plate & Spring or simply covered by the Stock with a captured Spring. This approach required the cartridges to be 'Backed Into' the cartridge opening on the interior of the left receiver wall.

Your description sounds like your father used the Fixed Plate approach. Rather than, "pushed in from the top", the cartridges should be "slid in from the front", rimmed end first.

The projectile (bullet) may possibly have to be inserted part way into the Chamber to allow the base to be backed into the opening in the left wall.

Another issue could be caused by the presence or absence of the Magazine Cut-off Switch.

If the Cut-off was simply removed, it leaves a machined groove exposed in the cartridge-feed opening. The cartridge rim can hang-up a bit on this groove.

If the Cut-off switch or lever is still on your Krag, it could be in the wrong position. It could be blocking the cartridge-feed path and preventing cartridges from being fully inserted or 'backed in'.

If you have a Cut-off lever, on most Krags, the 'Up' position allows free movement of cartridges.

If your Krag is a model 1892 or model 1896 action, you could have an earlier type of Magazine Cut-off, which had to be 'Down' to allow the flow of cartridges.

(The attached photo shows the Krag Cut-off lever in the 'Down' position. On most U.S. Krags, this would Block the magazine feed and cause problems loading. The lever should be 'Up'. However, early Cut-offs were the reverse).

[butlersrangers]

I don't have a picture of an altered Krag with part of the magazine removed and replaced with a simple 'screwed on plate', but, I know I've seen such a thing.

Attached are photos of a "Rifleman" How-To-Article, that shows how to make a 'thin' magazine-gate.

Also, attached is a photo showing a KCA Member's Krag, where the receiver was thinned and the magazine opening was covered by the replacement stock. This conversion required the cartridges to be 'backed into' the feed opening.

[Dick Hosmer]

Thanks Chuck, for the far more complete explanation! While 'top-loading' is not ideal, it certainly should NOT be anywhere near as difficult to accomplish, as was explained by the OP, and the cutoff (in one way or another) could well be the culprit.

[Ed Green]

butlersrangers, thanks for your reply (and the welcome note).

It is definitely a flat side plate, without the door -- the stock Dad carved from a chunk of Maple covers it.

I'm pretty sure there's no issue with a magazine cut-off switch, but I'll double check.

Wow, do I feel dumb now! I think "sliding in from the front" rather than "pushing down from the top" is the key. The tips of my "too long" cartridges were catching at the front of the receiver, after I had partially inserted the rim as far back as it would go. Putting one nose-first partially into the chamber and backing it into the magazine is the obvious (now that you point it out) solution. After all, they fed from the magazine into the chamber smooth as butter once I got them in there and cycled the bolt.

Thanks, man!

[Dick Hosmer]

Wow, I'd just ASSUMED you were (already) simply reversing the loading path, and that the cartridge was hanging up elsewhere - which I did not really think was likely, but didn't want to say so. Often the simplest solution turns out to be the correct one. Enjoy your rifle!

[butlersrangers]

Ed Green - Please post some pictures of you Dad's Krag. We like Krag pictures!

Dick, you didn't call me "simple", did you?

[Dick Hosmer]

I have always thought that the hinged floor-plate from a 1903 could be grafted on and should work well. But, evidently, there are some pitfalls in that process that just won't fly, else they'd probably be seen once in awhile - as am sure I'm not the only person with that idea.

[Ed Green]

Bingo!

Here's how I was trying to load the cartridges (just like every Springfield .30-06 or 8mm Mauser):



Sliding them in from the front took some fiddling, but I figured it out.

Here are some more pics of the Krag. It's an 1898; side magazine replaced with a flat plate, which is completely covered by a birds-eye maple stock. Dad (an architect and sculptor) designed the stock -- note how the curves forward of the action match those above the trigger and below the cheek pad (also defined by the hand checkering). He went a little overboard on the engraving, but the project sort of left "serviceable rifle" and became "artistic statement" at some point. :)

There are some nice features you can't see -- the end of the stock is offset from the sight line, to get your eye in place quicker, and the toe is offset more than the heel, to follow the natural angle of your shoulder. The right side of the grip has a "ball" protrusion to fit right in the palm of your hand. The barrel and action are glass bedded.

The weakest point is the rear sight. That peep sight is not a particularly good one - it doesn't have "click" adjustments, you just loosen screws, move the aperture, and tighten them back down. Also, due to the way the bolt is removed from these guns requires moving the sight up (and loosing zero). I'm mulling over a better solution... but that's a topic for a future post!