J.F.C. Stock Cartouche on 1898 Krag Rifle?

[Hammer]

Thanks Whig! I really appreciate your information and your PM advice. It’s my first night on this forum and I’m already very impressed.

[butlersrangers]

The [J.F. Coyle] 'block letter' cartouche is pretty cool.

Some interesting and mysterious markings appear on occasional Krag rifles,
that were rebuilt after 1904 and during the lead up to the U.S. WW1 'training camps'.

The [J.S.A.] stamp even begins to appear with 'block letters' on some Krags and 1903 Springfield rifles, that were worked on, during the WW1 preparation era.

I think, instead of serving the purpose of an "acceptance mark", maybe the "block letter" cartouche became an actual inspection mark for WW1 rebuilds?

'Whig' brought up the interesting subject of "Cole Rifling".

This was an old large bore/lead bullet idea, (Lancaster Oval-Bore or elliptical rifling), applied to the small-bore 'jacketed' bullet, by Dr. W.F. Cole of Waco, Texas.
It was the rifling profile, which almost looks like a smoothbore, that was the identifying feature.
Regular Krag barrels have a 1 turn in ten inches rate of twist.
Model 1898 Krag rifles with Cole barrels, were tested in 1902, with a 1 in 10" twist and retested with a 1 in 8" twist.

The serial numbers of the four 'Cole barreled' test Krags were: 364050, 364427, 364541, and 364703.

[Hammer]

I worked it out with my friend and I’ll be picking up this Krag Tuesday evening and I look forward to getting some good quality pictures posted and I’ll look forward to everyone’s comments on what I have found.

[Whig]

We'll be awaiting nice photos of your new treasure. Great job!

[Dick Hosmer]

A welcome to "Hammer", and I'm intrigued by Whig's first reply regarding PCRs made at Springfield - I thought the REAL PCRs were all done at Manila? Certainly thousands of "school guns" (wish someone could come up with a nicer-sounding designation) were done at SA, and many (most?) of those bear the small block JFC pictured above. FWIW, have never before seen the JFC on a full-length Krag rifle, just 1903s. Another interesting little quirk.

[Whig]

Dick, It seems that Mallory and Brophy, maybe Poyer also (I'm at work and don't have my books here) all attribute the J. F. C. Cartouche, in block letters, to represent PCs made at Springfield. That's my source. The real PCs were only made at Manila with the M.O.D. cartouche. Farmer has certainly shed a lot of light on this topic in recent years especially after he wrote his book. I have never seen this cartouche on a full length Krag rifle either. I'm intrigued by this Krag's history with that cartouche, if it is truly an authentic full length stock. Could be stretched!

[scottz63]

More interesting Krag stuff. Can't wait to see more pics.

[Dick Hosmer]

Dick, It seems that Mallory and Brophy, maybe Poyer also (I'm at work and don't have my books here) all attribute the J. F. C. Cartouche, in block letters, to represent PCs made at Springfield. That's my source. The real PCs were only made at Manila with the M.O.D. cartouche. Farmer has certainly shed a lot of light on this topic in recent years especially after he wrote his book. I have never seen this cartouche on a full length Krag rifle either. I'm intrigued by this Krag's history with that cartouche, if it is truly an authentic full length stock. Could be stretched!

Well, IF that's true, then I guess I have a real PCR also!

And, almost a "pair": My early "99 with headless cocking piece and 1898C sight is 227697, while my "PCR" is only 16 away at 227713. Closest two guns I've ever owned.

[butlersrangers]

It is possible that the OP's, full-length Krag rifle stock, with the [J.F.C.] Cartouche, was originally on a Krag .22 cal. Gallery Practice rifle.

Poyer noted in his book, "The American Krag Rifle and Carbine" - ( page 60), that G.P. .22 cal. rifles were inspected by J.F. Coyle.

Mallory notes, (in KRS, second edition, pg. 117), that in fiscal year 1907, 341 complete GP .22 cal. rifles and 124 GP barreled receivers were produced.

Since a GP rifle stock would be identical to a regular U.S. model 1898 Krag rifle stock, this may explain the "origin" of this JFC marked stock.

It was 'scavenged' from a GP rifle ... rare stock!

[Whig]

Didn't Mallory make a distinction between the "script JFC" cartouche, found on .22 Gallery rifles, from the "block J.F.C." cartouche, he stated (erroneously) was on Philippine Constabulary rifles?