H4895 .30-40 Krag Load with 220 GR RN?

[Stretch32]

I posted this over in the CMP forum and figured this is probably a much better forum for my question.

I'm trying to find a load using 220 grain surplus RN FMJ projectiles and H4895 powder. I'd like to shoot around 2,000 fps plinking at targets not much further than 300 yards.

I've been unable to find a load with this combination of powder and projectile and was hoping somebody here may be able to point me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance,
Stretch

[psteinmayer]

Howdy!

4895 doesn't really lend itself well to heavy slow moving bullets, as it is really a faster burning powder. You're not going to achieve 2000 fps with 4895 without extremely dangerous pressures - far in excess of what is considered safe in a Krag! Hornady's 9th Edition lists a starting load of 30.0 grains for 1600 FPS, a medium load of 31.5 grains for 1700 FPS, and a absolute maximum load of 33.1 grains for 1800 FPS.

My advice would be to use 4350 (either H or IMR). The standard load, and what many of us use, is 40.0 grains with a 220 gr bullet, which gives you around 1950 FPS. Anything higher, and you run the risk of a cracked locking lug, or worse! This is the load I use in my Krag with Hornady 220 gr RN bullets, and I shot a 96-1X in the prone position at the recent Theodore Roosevelt Match at Camp Perry. By the way, this is shooting at 200 yards too!

If you're still looking for higher velocities, then I would suggest using a lighter bullet with the 4895, such as a 168 gr or 150 gr. I have a friend who routinely wins Vintage matches shooting his 1898 using 150 gr RN bullets... although he uses IMR 3031 (I can't remember his charge weight). If you're just plinking, and not worried about feed issues (single shot), then you might consider a spitzer type bullet such as a 180 or 168 grain HPBT design bullet. Just my $0.02

Happy shooting
Paul

[Stretch32]

Paul,

Thanks for the reply and the info. I did find a very old IMR 4895 load for the Krag but I'll stick with the IMR or H 4350 at 40 grains as suggested. I'm really just plinking but I do like shoot my old rifles as they were intended so a hand load that approximates the original 30-40 USGI load is what I'd like.

Thanks again.

Stretch

[madsenshooter]

H4350 is ADI powder, their AR2209. They have 30-40 Krag data on their website, also a good powder equivalent chart. They show a 40gr start charge and a 42gr max. Velocity range of 1874-1950fps, out of a 24" test barrel. H4895 is also ADI powder, but they didn't use it with a 220.

My old Hornady 3rd edition (1987) shows a max load of H4895 as 36.3gr@2000fps out of a 30" barrel. Start charge of 30gr for only 1600fps. It's always been known as a powder that works well for reduced loads.

[psteinmayer]

I primarily use IMR-4350 in my loads with the 220 gr RN bullet. For what it's worth... IMR-4350 at 40 grains is as close as you're going to get to the original .30 Army loading. H-4350 is great, but a slightly different burn rate. The old Dupont IMR formula is pretty close to the Laflin & Rand .30 Powder formula that was used in the original Krag ammo.

I started out just plinking... and now I shoot in several matches every year with my Krag (as well as my Garand, 1903A3, and even K-31 and Arisaka rifles). I guess it just crawled up under my skin and took root... and I Love it!!!

[Stretch32]

Paul,

I'm trying to confirm if its IMR 4350 or H4350 at 40 grains and a 220 grain RN FMJ bullet you're using. I only see loads for this projectile with H4350 in the various reloading manuals and websites I've seen.

If it's IMR 4350 I was just curious where the load is actually published so I know where to look. Also, is there any real significant difference between shooting 40 grains of H4350 vice IMR 4350 besides what I would assume would be a slightly lightly lower pressure with the H4350?

I'd like to replicate the characteristics of the original .30-40 USGI round as accurately as possible while also keeping pressure down to as low as possible to give my limited brass stash a break.

Thanks again.

Stretch

[psteinmayer]

My Hornady 9th edition lists IMR-4350, but some manuals actually list data for both IMR and H. The difference between IMR-4350 and H4350 are really negligible - 40 grains either way. There are slight differences in formula, and if one wants to get down to brass tacks, the burn rates are ever so slightly different... but not to the degree that you or I would see at the range doing basic shooting/plinking. You would have to get out a chrono and get all OCD to really discover one's superiority over the other.

My load is with the IMR-4350. I'm loading a Hornady 220 gr RN Interlock bullet over 40.0 grains of IMR-4350. Historically, I've been using a CCI-250 Magnum primer, but I'm going to switch to either the CCI-200 Standard, or a CCI #34 Mil-Spec primer. The 250 gives me great consistency, but this last match, I had a couple slightly flattened primers, so I'm concerned about possible excess pressure.

Another helpful hint I can give you towards preserving your brass would be to anneal your case necks!

[Stretch32]

Paul,

Sorry for the delay but thanks for the reply.

I'll plan to reload using 40 grains of either H4350 or IMR 4350 when I finally find some locally. As I mentioned, I'd like to replicate the original load to the max extent practical but don't want to kill my brass after only a few reloads.

I'll look into annealing as well as you mentioned to try and alleviate some of the stress on the case necks when I'm reloading as well.

Thanks again,

Stretch

[psteinmayer]

The 40 grains of 4350 load is on the low to middle of the road as far as pressures go. But fear not... I've got well over a dozen reloads on a lot of my brass, and some approaching 20.

[Stretch32]

Bringing this one back up for some follow up questions.

I ended up buying a 1 lb bottle of H4350 and had very good results with it at 40 grains with a 220 grain RN FMJ bullet. I was able to find load data in nearly all recent reloading manuals to back up my work as well and was very happy with the results.

I went to buy some more H4350 this weekend and all the local vendors were out of stock so I grabbed some IMR-4350 instead since that's all they had. Looking through a few reloading manuals on their shelves I didn't see any data for IMR-4350 loads using a 220 grain bullet, only H4350 (I will say the reloading manual selection was small). Some quick web research seems to indicate that newer IMR-4350 is not quite the same as old IMR-4350 (not sure why) and that H4350 is a "better" powder due to being more consistent and temperature stable.

With all of this, I know a lot of guys here load up 40 grains of IMR-4350 with a 220 grain RN FMJ with good results. My question is:

Does anybody have reloading data from reloading manuals that are no more than about 3 years old they can post with IMR-4350 (not H4350) loads using a 220 grain RN FMJ?

Thanks in advance.

Stretch