Update Reloading frustrations

[RedLeg0811]

Hi guys,

I have a carbine with a rifle barrel cut down. Some of you helped me identify what I had. Thanks

I am now trying to reload for it. The problem I feel is the shoulder. I have some reloads for this carbine from the guy I got it from and they will not load. I have a factory round that loads just fine. I resized some old (60s- 70s ) brass both Win and Rem (not sure what rifle they were shot from). Casing length in spec, but the bolt will not close. the start of the shoulder should be .500s, these are 700s. I have RCBS FL dies, so I am not sure what the deal is?
Do I need to aneal the brass to get the shoulder moved back?

I am also going to cast the chamber for GP.

Thanks
Martin

[psteinmayer]

Are we talking in terms of brass or loaded rounds?

Ok, so my first question is did you load any of these? It sounds like they are not loaded for 30-40 if the shoulder is not correct. If these are rounds that were loaded by someone else, then I would break them down and resize the cases. (I'm just not that trusting when it's my life on the line, and I KNOW what I am putting into a case... but I never trust ammo from someone I don't really know).

If your talking in terms of cases that you sized and still won't chamber because of the shoulder, then you might not have your sizing die set up correctly. It's not unheard of... but it may explain the shoulder being located too far forward.

Annealing the case necks is always a good idea to save on case neck wear and tear over several reloadings. Also, after you've sized, loaded and fired your rounds, you should neck-size only as the case is now fire-formed to the chamber.

If possible, post a couple pictures showing one next to a factory round.

[RedLeg0811]

There is both I first noticed this when I went to test the fit some 220 grain rounds that my friend reloaded. I then went on to try a used casing and it didn't fit. I've then resized and made sure that the length of the casing was alright and it still doesn't fit with the shoulder. I put sharpie around the shoulder and was able to see that it was rubbing right at the beginning of the shoulder. Since the die was not fully forming the cartridge, I pulled the stem so I can fully seat into it without any obstruction. The start of the shoulder was still the same.

[Dick Hosmer]

I'm confused - you say the guy who sold you the gun also sold you some reloads for it? What does HE say about why they will not chamber? Any chance of the cases having been - at some point - run through .303 British dies, or fireformed in some wildcat? Offbeat guesses to be sure, but your story is puzzling.

[RedLeg0811]

There was 20 rounds that came with the carbine. He reload them long ago it's a family friend. I don't think he ever got a chance to shoot the carbine unless it was factory rounds. Factory rounds will load in the carbine.

The other empty casings that I have we're given to me from a friend that's passed away. I am not sure what they were shot in, but I think it had a loose chamber.

The dies have are full length dies. I have resize the casings but they still do not chamber. These are without bullets that I am trying to chamber. Bolt moves down 1/4" for lock up and then stops.

[Dick Hosmer]

Can you screw the sizing die down any further into your press, or are you already (almost) touching the shell holder? I assume that - if you have a modern press that you are using a button shell-holder (my old Pacific Jr. has a dedicated shell-holder machined into the ram itself) so is there any chance it is for another caliber? Any chance your dies are mismarked? Do you know anyone else who loads for Krag with whom you can compare dies? In other words, can you shove your wrongly sized cases into another die, or do they hang up as with your rifle?

[madsenshooter]

Sounds like you might have something in your chamber. Or you might have some cases that were shot in a 30-40 improved chamber. Let me see if I got it straight. Factory rounds will chamber, sized down cases will not. If they won't go, they have to be bigger than they're supposed to be. But unless the die is cut long, or you're not running them all the way into the die, full length sizing should take of it. If the cases are already bigger than they should be, they may have been fired in a 30-40 improved chamber. Even if so, full length sizing should fix it, but it would require a bit more force than usual, and perhaps some sizing die wax. This is a hard one without some hands on checking of things! Pic of a case that will chamber beside one that won't may be of help.

I have ran into a few rifles that were tightly chambered. Not done by the Armory, but by someone else over the years. Rental of a chamber reamer will fix that. One that was short I could chamber a round, but it was pushing the shoulder back on an already full length sized case. My reamer took care of that and it's now the same length as the rest of my rifles. Oh, and make sure your FL die is not marked 30-40AI, the AI standing for Ackley Improved.

[Parashooter]

The usual source of such problems is insufficient sizing resulting from a failure to compensate for press flex under load. Examine die/shellholder gap when sizing a case. If gap is present, die can be adjusted farther down.



See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al2m72JyypA

If gap under load is eliminated and cases still will not chamber, upper surface of shellholder can be stoned or sanded thinner to allow case to enter die farther.

Before trying any of this, measure rim thickness of problem cases. If it's greater than .064" (and your rifle has good, tight headspace) the problem may not be at the shoulder.

[reincarnated]

If the factory rounds chamber and you are confident that everything is safe (remove bolt and look through the chamber), try firing a single round (or maybe 2 or 3) and compare the cases. There were many who "improved" the Krag case over the years, not just Ackley.

Look carefully at the markings on your FL die. Might it be a Neck Sizing die? Make sure you have the right shell holder. Make some careful measurements of the fired & resized cases.

If you are like me and have one of those ancient presses (Pacific or Herters) that Mr. Hosmer described, RCBS sells an adapter or replacement kit ($12.50, IIRC) that brings it up to date, +/-.

[FredC]

The idea of an improved chamber has been mentioned. Could the dies been improved and not marked? If so you will be chasing your tail till you get correct dies.

Also on my 35 caliber sporter I had a similar problem mine turned out to to be an undersize chamber mostly near the rim. Factory cases could just barely chamber but cases that had been correctly resized would not. Chances of having an undersized original chamber are remote. Mine was cut with a defective reamer that the reamer manufacturer replaced.