Springfeld 1898 - Struck Out Serial Number? Value?

[CRD1898]

Hey All,

I have the chance to buy this Model 1898 that is seemingly correct and original. The stock cartouche is beautiful and the rifle is very clean with an excellent bore. However, the serial number has been partially struck out in crude fashion (see photos).

Is there precedent for something like this? What could it mean?

What would you put the value at considering the marred serial number?

[Dick Hosmer]

What a shame.... Without seeing the rest of it, looks like someone ruined a $2,000+ rifle. Current worth is whatever buyer and seller can agree on. I'm thinking it is probably a candidate for receiver replacement, if it can be had cheap enough. I'm also thinking that I recall from somewhere that possession of an arm with a defaced serial number is illegal? As to the why - I'd assume it was probably stolen at some point.

[Mike4MSU]

Shame indeed. Defaced SN makes it illegal. I wouldn’t want it at any price. Current owner could always salvage parts: stock, barrel, bolt, etc for sale. Given the overall condition, the likely reason was related to a theft at some point as it (was) a very fine look g example with no valid reason to mutilate the SN.

[butlersrangers]

Bummer .... The number is high enough that it is a 'Modern Gun'. Any sales transactions involving a dealer require paperwork.
Private sales in some jurisdictions also now require transaction paperwork.

The number is clearly mutilated. That freaks us all out because its a likely crime (on multiple levels).

In earlier and simpler times, rifle serial number digits were sometimes damaged by poor location of scope mounting-holes.
(Back in the day ... "Ooops" ... , nobody likely got too excited or went to jail).

Long arms (especially .22 cal. rifles) have not always required serial numbers.
There is some provision in law for legal transactions with guns "grandfathered", because they never bore a number.

It is probably worth while, asking local law enforcement, or, even better the BATF the status of such a long arm.
Tell them the number was apparently damaged, long ago, by an attempt to mount a 'peep' sight.

I would not possess such a rifle, without some very convincing official paperwork,
stating and citing that the damage is old and excused by some 'Grandfathering Regulations'.

FWIW - The original number appears to be 365259(?).

[03collector]

I had a W.W.1 friend how had a 1911 Colt .45 auto. He did the same thing to his pistol when l asked him why. His response was he was afraid the government would somehow take the pistol away
Its to bad it looks like a nice rifle.

[03collector]

*Who
Sorry for my bad grammar shouldn't be doing this and drinking.

[Culpeper]

I am the contrarian on this one. I say buy it. Whatever was done in the past was not done by you. The seller and/or the FFL can deal with the SN. The only reason I can foresee that there might, could, may, be a problem is when the FFL turns in his book when he goes out of business. And if it is a private sale then there no problems at all.

Strike a good price you both can live with and go shooting.

[waterman]

I'm with Culpepper. If the SN must go onto some paperwork, why not use the 365259 that BR has deciphered? It's all about appearances anyhow. As long as a number appears, legal requirements would appear to have been met. I 'd use the struck out SN to push for a very low $ sales price, with all the above arguments. And then there are those wretches who are buying complete guns, parting them out, and profiting by selling the parts on eBay.

If you are going to display it in a public place, or if you have an FFL or otherwise deal with ATF or other cops, don't buy it. If you are really concerned, since it is already disfigured, find one of those old scope mounts, D&T the rest of the action and install the scope mount. It's a great excuse to search out a Cataract scope. Reproduction long scopes are made & sold. Make some Cataract mounts, attach one of the Malcom reproductions and tell us how it works.

Several firms are in the restoration business. Could the action and the SN be professionally restored? Is that legal?

Those of us who collect these things are mostly geezers who keep a low profile. When it's time for us to get rid of the stuff, we'll probably find a younger low profile geezer-in-training. Private trades & sales go on all the time. Ain't nobody's business, laws or not.

With all the unnumbered or mutilated ARs or AKs reported daily as seized by the cops, tracking down & prosecuting some arch-fiend with an illegal Krag would seem to be a waste of law enforcement resources. Who would want to squander our societal legal resources?

[Whig]

Very interesting. The stampings are very skillfully done to totally obliterate those two numbers. You can't just "make up" numbers based on conjecture. They have to be clearly identifiable. And, not only are those two numbers stamped out, but the first four numbers look like they were scrubbed or heated- not sure- but the metal is distorted around them.

The BATFE does restamp new serial numbers in certain circumstances when the original serial number is illegible. But, I would place the attempt to contact and enquire of the BATFE on the seller and say you'll buy it if a new SN is stamped. Otherwise, it might be a problem if this was a stolen rifle or used in a crime. (How many crimes have been committed with Krags over the past 100 years??)

Too bad about this. The parts are good and a new receiver, like Dick said, would be nice. Lots of work but not undoable.

The BATFE examiners would not be fooled by saying this was an accident.

I would also wonder if the seller is a businessman with an FFL. If so, how did he enter it into his book? What serial number was ascribed to this rifle previously, if any? 36XX59?

Thanks for sharing. Unusual Krag with, undoubtably, an interesting history.

[Culpeper]

Now I get to disagree..

Don't drill and tap it. There are already too many of those receivers in the world. Deal with what it is and the history that comes with it.

"Trust the force CR." Signed - Darth Geezer.