KRAG BRASS

[psteinmayer]

It'd be great if they all took notice! I think some have purchased the brass and immediately placed it on GB for profit (some people have no scruples). I suspect that this won't be the last Graf's offers, and after how much and how fast it went, I'm betting sooner than later!

[BM1455]

Received my 200 today. Just a quick look at a few of the cases.
They say Graf / 30-40 Krag on them.
They do not look like Remington or Winchester cases.
I threw them into my Wilson case gauge and found that they were a little bit long in the shoulder. Since you should run them through the resize dies anyways as the necks are not perfectly round due to packaging, this gives you an opportunity to bump the shoulder back into speck. Contrast this to some old Winchester un-fired cases I have where they are quite a bit short in the case gauge right from the factory. No way to bump those forward so you just fire form those when you shoot them. So this stuff from Grafs should cause less stretching in the case head area than the Winchester or Remington brass when you fire it for the first time. (I have noticed that my Remington fired brass gets a little distortion in this area at the first firing. The Winchester brass does not show this as much but I have to think it is stretching there a bit too since it gauges a bit short.) So, maybe a good thing? Less wear on that part of the case with the Graf cases?
Comments?

Replying to my own post here.
A little more quick comparison of the Graf cases to Remington and Winchester cases I have here. I weighed one of each. I resized and bumped the shoulder on the Grafs back to where it should be and ran it through my Wilson gauge. It was now fine.
As for weights: The Remington was twice fired and trimmed so it could be slightly lighter than it would have been new. The Winchester was new and never fired. All were re-sized and trimmed to re-trim length of 2.304" for equal comparison.
Remington = 158.2 grns.
Winchester = 172.3 grns.
Graf = 182.7 grns.

[psteinmayer]

Hopefully that extra weight equals a nice sturdy case that will take many reloads!

[Stretch32]

Looks like Captec / Jamison made them. Just got back from Europe yesterday and saw a follow up email from them to my previous email:

From the Captec Team

30-40 brass now available exclusively at Graf and Sons.

Sounds like they listened to all the requests we've been putting out. Pretty cool.

Stretch

[BM1455]

Hopefully that extra weight equals a nice sturdy case that will take many reloads!

Yes. I was thinking that too. In theory, The fact that since it is just brass for reloading and not manufactured ammo they seem to be made a bit tight in the Wilson case gauge (Though they chamber just fine in my Krag) it means that if your dies are set up nicely for your own gun the stretching in the head area can be minimized greatly. For the Krag that is a good place to not over work the brass. The old un-fired Winchester cases I have seem to have the opposite issue and when put that in the Wilson gauge are quite a bit under length when sitting on the shoulder of the gauge. So if I am seeing this all the right way we should be able to control our fate on case life better with this brass better than we can with the Winchester and Remington that has more of a head space sort of issue. Case necks will be the other thing to watch but that cane be treated somewhat with annealing them.

[butlersrangers]

Thanks for identifying the likely source of Graf's .30-40 Brass.

U.S. Made in South Dakota - hats off to Graf's and Captec/Jamison!

[Parashooter]

Received my 200 today.. . They say Graf / 30-40 Krag on them. . .
I threw them into my Wilson case gauge and found that they were a little bit long in the shoulder. Since you should run them through the resize dies anyways as the necks are not perfectly round due to packaging, this gives you an opportunity to bump the shoulder back into speck. Contrast this to some old Winchester un-fired cases I have where they are quite a bit short in the case gauge right from the factory. No way to bump those forward so you just fire form those when you shoot them. So this stuff from Grafs should cause less stretching in the case head area than the Winchester or Remington brass when you fire it for the first time.. . So, maybe a good thing? Less wear on that part of the case with the Graf cases?
Comments?

Since you ask for comments, I have to say this perhaps shows a misunderstanding of case-stretch dynamics. In brief, unless the shoulder is far enough forward to hold the base of the cartridge firmly against the bolt face, shoulder position is immaterial to stretch with a rimmed cartridge, since it is only any play (clearance) between bolt face, case rim, and barrel breech that will allow the case to stretch when its solid head moves back to the bolt while chamber pressure adheres the hollow case body to the chamber walls. Perhaps this explanation from Naramore will help -



Same idea animated -



If the rifle has generous headspace (or case rims are abnormally thin) and we want to prevent stretch and eventual separation, we need some mechanism to hold the case head firmly against the bolt face before firing - or to prevent the case body from adhering to the chamber. See http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=296-Headspace-101-for-.303-s for some ideas.

[reincarnated]

Earl Naramore and Julian Hatcher, names we do not often see these days. That I recognized them just shows that I am old.

What is the significance of The Army of the United States? Was that the National Guard?

[BM1455]

Since you ask for comments, I have to say this perhaps shows a misunderstanding of case-stretch dynamics. In brief, unless the shoulder is far enough forward to hold the base of the cartridge firmly against the bolt face, shoulder position is immaterial to stretch with a rimmed cartridge, since it is only any play (clearance) between bolt face, case rim, and barrel breech that will allow the case to stretch when its solid head moves back to the bolt while chamber pressure adheres the hollow case body to the chamber walls. Perhaps this explanation from Naramore will help -



Same idea animated -



Thanks for the information. So shoulder placement is not particularly important with a rimmed rifle case? I would have thought that a lose shoulder would only amplify the problem of the case being pushed to the rear since fire forming the shoulder to the chamber is still essentially working brass forward. A loser shoulder should still mean more brass moving to fill that void.

Edited after I thought about it a bit. ^ :)

[Parashooter]

Thanks for the information. So shoulder placement is not particularly important with a rimmed rifle case? I would have thought that a lose shoulder would only amplify the problem of the case being pushed to the rear since fire forming the shoulder to the chamber is still essentially working brass forward. A loser shoulder should still mean more brass moving to fill that void.

Edited after I thought about it a bit. ^ :)

What may be misleading your thinking is the idea that brass is moving forward. This is incorrect. The front end of the case simply expands radially (outward) to fill the chamber. The solid head then moves back until it is stopped by the bolt face. Nothing actually moves forward. Here's an example -



After the initial firing, if we avoid moving the shoulder back during re-sizing, the shoulder positions the case head firmly against the bolt face - just as it does with a rimless cartridge - and the rim becomes immaterial to stretching.