newbe questions for reloading for Krag.

[BM1455]

Hello guys. I'm new to reloading for the .30-40 and will be shooting it in my 1898 rifle that has a very nice .308 bore. A few questions.
Firstly, is there a difference between the thickness of the Remington and the Winchester Brass? If so, I will circle back to this later in the post.
I found a random Winchester case at the range. Brought it home and cleaned it, re-sized it in my lee FL re-sizer die, checked it for case length, and seated a Hornady 220 RN to 3.080". It is just a dummy case with no powder and will be used for die set up only. It cycles nicely in my Springfield 1898 with no problems.

Today I went to the range and fired 6 Remington factory 180gr loads. All went nicely. Brought the brass home and tried to set up my Hornady 30 cal. (.308) neck sizing die. I wanted to re-size the neck as far down towards the beginning of the shoulder as I could without actually getting to that point. Then I added the expander and decapper back into the die. At first I tightened it all the way down to the point where the mandrel gripped the expander tightly enough and found it collapsed the shoulder of the case. I re set it by screwing the expander and the locking madrel down until I felt it touch the mouth of the case. The problem seems to be that the Krag neck is so much longer that it will not allow me to tighten the mandrel down enough for it to grip the expander/ decapper in place without tightening it all down to where it collapses the shoulder.
1. Am I doing it wrong?
2. If not, what I found as an alternative was that if I just tighten it all down so it grips the expander and just do not cam over the press it does not seem to collapse the shoulder but it will fully re size the neck. This leads to the next question. My outside neck measurement on the Remington dummy case I made with the Hornady neck die with the 220 bullet measured .332" diameter. The Winchester case I made with my Lee FL die measured .336". Will this be OK?

[Parashooter]

1. That's not a mandrel, it's a collet - and the shaft it retains isn't the expander, it's the "spindle" - at least according to Hornady's description -

"The Zip Spindle design on all full length size dies positively locks to eliminate slippage. A series of light threads cut on both the spindle and spindle collet allows you to make incremental adjustments by turning the spindle or you can easily "zip it" up or down for larger movements."

2. The Hornady die appears designed for necks shorter than we find on the .30/40 case. Not a problem, since we seldom need to size the whole length of the neck. Just back the die body out a bit so the case mouth isn't running into the collet, or use your FL die and back it out enough so it sizes only the neck - a setup enabled by the .30/40's strongly tapered body.

3. It's not unusual to find variation in neck wall thickness not only between brands but even between lots from the same maker. It's a good reason to separate cases by brand.

[BM1455]

Thanks for the correction on my vocabulary - you are correct. :-)
I figured it might be a difference in thickness on the two types of brass but I forgot to measure it on the range brass/ Winchester brass since I was not planning on using it for real ammo anyways.
Your point on using the FL die is valid and I thought about it but maybe I will just set up the Hornady die the way you mentioned and call it good. I would like to have the FL die set up for that job and the neck die set up for it's own job I guess.
So, no real issue with the necks being slightly undersized? the measurements in the Hornady and Lyman books show .338".

[psteinmayer]

Howdy,

I use a LEE FL sizing die, and I set it up per the lee instructions, and then I back it out 3/4 to one turn for neck sizing... works like a charm! The mandrel in the LEE die should be set so the top of the pin is level with the top of the locking collar. This is very important as setting it incorrectly could result in a severely stuck case (I experienced this with a 30-06 die which caused me a great deal of stress). Hornady has different set-up instructions for their spindle, and I'm not familiar with them, and frankly, I'd just trust what Para says (he's pretty much the expert here).

As for the brass... I use both Remington and Winchester. With the lack of brass these days, we use what we can. I don't mix them though, as I usually load for match shooting, and that gives me consistency. My preference is with the Winchester brass, as it cleans up much nicer, and my loads seem to be more consistent... however, Remington brass is much more prevalent these days (I haven't seen Winchester ammo on the shelves in ages). I'm actually waiting for the seasonal run of brass by Remington this fall and then I'm going to order a couple hundred new cases.

[BM1455]

Thanks guys. ...and yes, I like reading parashooter's posts too. Especially on the Norwegian Krags.

I was planning on using IMR 4350 since I have a lot of it and have experience using it for my Norwegian Krag. How many of you guys use a crimp and/ or magnum primers with this powder? Not sure if I want to necessarily use the magnum primers but I have seen a few posts where people do so.
I also have some N-160, H380 and IMR 4895 but I was planning on just using the 4350 unless any of these others get rave reviews here.

[butlersrangers]

IMR-4895 is great in .30-40 with 150 to 180 grain jacketed bullets. Use 'Starting' loads within Krag's pressure range.

The .30-40 Case has a nice long neck. Neck-Sizing only works well for me. Magnum Primers and 'Crimping' case mouth is unnecessary.

Standard Large Rifle primers give very good results.

Don't try and 'Hot Rod' the Krag cartridge. Respect your Rifle's metallurgy.

p.s. IMR-4350 is very popular for .30-40 Krags, especially with 190-220 grain jacketed projectiles.

[BM1455]

Here are two Remington cases. The first one (left) is FL re-sized. The second is neck sized using the Hornady .30 cal (308) neck sizing die screwed down into the press as far as I dared without having the fully tightened collet crush the shoulder. I might be able to get it a little further down but do I really need to? I have about 2/3 of the neck re-sized. You can see how the bullet I will use generally lines up with it.
I was planning on a slight crimp as well. I probably will start loading with about 37.5 grs of IMR 4350 and Winchester LR primers since that is what I know I have. I may have some CCI's someplace. Any concerns I am missing?

[madsenshooter]

Remington cases are heavier (thicker) than Winchester cases, not much to worry about unless you're approaching maximum loads. The difference might make a small change in the point of impact between loads in the two different cases. I can't comment on what you're doing, other than to say forget the .308 neck sizer and just back your full length die out a bit so it isn't sizing the body and shoulder.

[psteinmayer]

For what it's worth... I use 4350 with my 220 gr RN bullets, and I use magnum primers and apply a light crimp with a LEE factory crimp die. Butlersrangers is correct that a crimp is unnecessary... however, I seem to get nice consistency with the crimp.

The jury is still out on the whole magnum VS standard primer, and there is good data either way. I started using them because I was told I'd get a more consistent and complete burn with the slower-burning 4350, and I just kept on using them. I load the Hornady 220 gr RN over 40.0 grains of IMR-4350 and a CCI 250 Magnum primer. This is pretty much the modern equivalent of the original Krag round, and the only thing I shoot in my 98 for CMP matches!

Now, more on the crimping issue: If I use a spitzer bullet in any of my Krags, and I DON'T crimp, then I will experience the bullets telescope into the case neck upon chambering a round. This happens to me every time, and always results in the case being wedged cockeyed in the chamber requiring it to be pried free (actually spoiled a few good shots back in my hunting days this way). Now, not everyone has this problem... but it's enough for me to say if you're going to load a spitzer bullet, you would be wise to crimp!

[BM1455]

Thanks for both of the latest two posts.

On the cases. I may just use the FL die for both as mentioned above but I am assuming there is no issue with the neck sized case in the picture. It is neck sized to the same diameter as the Lee FL die and though the Hornady neck die does not re size the entire neck it does hold well over the diameter of the bullet. Once the bullet is pressed into it it will expand the opening to the same size as the FL sized case anyways. The only real difference might be the tension presented by only having 2/3 to 3/4 of the case neck gripping vs. the entire neck. Perhaps a slight crimp may be a good thing there? Maybe not needed though.

On the primers. I will be starting around 38 grains of IMR 4350 and will work up unless it is the opinion of people that that would be a waste of time. (Hornady starting load is way down at 34.5gr while Lyman starts at 40.0 grs.) Any issue with a light crimp without the magnum primers on starting loads?
At this point I am just interested in using the 220 bullets. After I get used to this caliber I may try other things.