96 Carbine Serial Number
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Guy Hildebrand
96 Carbine Serial Number
I came home from the local gun show with a Model 1896 carbine today, in great condition with lots of the blue finish remaining and a bright bore (lucky me!!). The serial number is 78041. The stock is a replacement (I guess), of the correct length, but with no cut for the sling bar and with a 1901 dated JSA cartouche. Everything else looks original, including the sight, which has the two correctly positioned 'C' marks. Is there any information available on this serial number?
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gunbarrel
Re: 96 Carbine Serial Number
At the Springfield Rsearch Center website
http://www.armscollectors.com/srs.htm
there is no information on s/n 78041, but s/n 78040 is listed as a Model 1896 carbine issued to Troop A, 1st Nevada Volunteer Cavalry. As close a match as it is, the experts here will tell you that "close" only counts in horseshoes and hand-grenades; there is no way to tell if yours was issued to that same outfit.
http://www.armscollectors.com/srs.htm
there is no information on s/n 78041, but s/n 78040 is listed as a Model 1896 carbine issued to Troop A, 1st Nevada Volunteer Cavalry. As close a match as it is, the experts here will tell you that "close" only counts in horseshoes and hand-grenades; there is no way to tell if yours was issued to that same outfit.
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oldammoguy
Re: 96 Carbine Serial Number
I appreciate the response. I imagine that the stock could have been replaced at any time, but I'd like to think it was an armory replacement done sometime in 1901 (the cartouche date) or shortly therafter. How is this mismatch between the production date of the gun (1896 to 1898) and the stock viewed by the Krag-collecting crowd? Also, butt of the stock has significant 'tiger-striping'. Is this normal in a military stock - I was under the impression that figured wood was generally avoided.
Re: 96 Carbine Serial Number
Hello Guy,
To the best of my knowledge cartouches were only put on newly compleated firearms after final inspection and not on refitted guns. The 1901 cartouche makes me believe that someone, most likely outside of the armory, refitted youre gun with a M'99 carbine stock from another gun. What does the cut out around the bolt handle look like? Is it a square cut out or the edges scaloped (?) to taper the cut out back?
Ned
To the best of my knowledge cartouches were only put on newly compleated firearms after final inspection and not on refitted guns. The 1901 cartouche makes me believe that someone, most likely outside of the armory, refitted youre gun with a M'99 carbine stock from another gun. What does the cut out around the bolt handle look like? Is it a square cut out or the edges scaloped (?) to taper the cut out back?
Ned
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oldammoguy
Re: 96 Carbine Serial Number
I'll take a shot at inserting an image of the bolt handle cutout. Hope this works.
img]http://members.aol.com/mg64guy/kragcut.jpg
img]http://members.aol.com/mg64guy/kragcut.jpg
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oldammoguy
Re: 96 Carbine Serial Number
The image didn't work - it appears I dropped the bracket at the start. Here's another attempt. In case it doesn't work, you can pull up the picture by going to this address: http://members.aol.com/mg64guy/kragcut.jpg
If anyone has any interest in other pictures of my Model 1896 carbine, or can provide some input regarding the 'correctness' of its 1901 dated stock, I have additional pics at the same address of the foreend wood (kragwood.jpg), rear sight (kragsite.jpg), and cartouche (kragdate.jpg).
If anyone has any interest in other pictures of my Model 1896 carbine, or can provide some input regarding the 'correctness' of its 1901 dated stock, I have additional pics at the same address of the foreend wood (kragwood.jpg), rear sight (kragsite.jpg), and cartouche (kragdate.jpg).
Re: 96 Carbine Serial Number
Guy,
I just looked at your pictures, that is a nice looking carbine! The 1901 cartouche is more of a mystery to me now. Your gun has the original style short forend stock and if the stock was field replacement it would definately not have a cartouche. But after adoption of the 'M 99 carbine those sent back to the armory for repair would have been up dated to M'99 configuration with the long forend type stock. Are you absolutely sure the cartouche is 1901? Something doesn't add up here! Maybe we can get Col. Mook in on this conversation to set us all straight. As I said , nice lookijng carbine, just wish I could be of more help!!
Ned
I just looked at your pictures, that is a nice looking carbine! The 1901 cartouche is more of a mystery to me now. Your gun has the original style short forend stock and if the stock was field replacement it would definately not have a cartouche. But after adoption of the 'M 99 carbine those sent back to the armory for repair would have been up dated to M'99 configuration with the long forend type stock. Are you absolutely sure the cartouche is 1901? Something doesn't add up here! Maybe we can get Col. Mook in on this conversation to set us all straight. As I said , nice lookijng carbine, just wish I could be of more help!!
Ned
Re: 96 Carbine Serial Number
Just got a better look at the cartouche picture (my computer screen is old and small!) it does look like 1901! The plot thickens!
Ned
Ned
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oldammoguy
Re: 96 Carbine Serial Number
Ned,
Thanks for the feedback. It is a beauty. My reaction on first seeing the carbine was 'Wow'!. I need to get some history on it - all I got from the seller was that it had belonged to his grandfather and had hung over the fireplace for as long as he could remember. I have no reason to doubt this, as he was a college professor who appeared to have no interest whatsoever in guns. Aside from a few small stock dings, several tiny specks of what appears to be white paint, a couple of damaged screw slots, and a couple of small patches of very light pitting on top of the receiver and the buttplate, the condition is excellent, with most of the blueing still intact. All marks are clear and show no evidence of refinishing. The bore is about perfect, with just a slight hint of darkening at the start of the rifling. Aside from the usual receiver and sight markings, the curlicue 'P' and a small 'F' are behind the triggerguard and the magazine cover has a small '7' on the bottom.
Thanks for the feedback. It is a beauty. My reaction on first seeing the carbine was 'Wow'!. I need to get some history on it - all I got from the seller was that it had belonged to his grandfather and had hung over the fireplace for as long as he could remember. I have no reason to doubt this, as he was a college professor who appeared to have no interest whatsoever in guns. Aside from a few small stock dings, several tiny specks of what appears to be white paint, a couple of damaged screw slots, and a couple of small patches of very light pitting on top of the receiver and the buttplate, the condition is excellent, with most of the blueing still intact. All marks are clear and show no evidence of refinishing. The bore is about perfect, with just a slight hint of darkening at the start of the rifling. Aside from the usual receiver and sight markings, the curlicue 'P' and a small 'F' are behind the triggerguard and the magazine cover has a small '7' on the bottom.